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"Carbon dating of a fragment from a Koran stored at a Birmingham library suggests that the book was produced between 568 and 645 A.D., said scientists at the University of Oxford..."
"Islamic scholars generally believe Muhammad lived between 570 and 632 A.D."
So, the REAL title of the article should be: "Although we don't know muhammad's year of birth or death, carbon dating suggests the worlds oldest koran could have been produced before, during, or after muhammad's proposed life span."
Not quite the same ring, huh?
The spiritual version of the Quran's creation story has the various passages taking the last few decades of his life to express, and not being compiled into a codex until after he died. So, no, it isnt a "gotcha" moment. It just makes that accepted timeline that much less likely to be correct. If anything, it's probably more akin to the sourcing of the pericope adulterae...just another reminder that religious history is more religion than history.
The "spiritual version" of the Quran's creation story is exactly that, a version. The Quran, to my knowledge, does not say that its words were not written down, does not provide the dates of Mohammad's life, etc. To my knowledge, once you stray from the Quran, you stray from the only source of "truth" in Islam, since it is the only book that is believed (by its adherents, of course) to be directly communicated, word for word, from God. The hadiths are similar to the bible, they were written by others and through other's eyes, interpretations, perceptions, and direction. As such, showing that the oldest Quran was written sometime either before, during, or after Mohammad's proposed life span does zilch to discredit the book. It may somewhat discredit the historical accuracy of the "spiritual version" of events, but not the Quran itself. The only way to absolutely scientifically discredit the Quran is to prove the years that Mohammad was alive and prove that a Quran exists that predates him, since the Quran does state that Mohammad received the words. Absent that, you don't have much to stand on, and anyone who claims a scientific premise for their rejection of religion should understand that article titles which are not supported by the data contained in the article are not very scientific at all (I'm not directing that at any specific poster, just making a comment).
Hypothetically, I don't actually have a problem with this. It's an elective and studying the Bible's cultural impact is legitimate. The problem is this is Kentucky and these classes will undoubtedly be administered and controlled by redneck evangelicals on school boards.
The investigators found abuses in a variety of faiths and organizations, but the conclusions about the Catholic Church were numerous and widespread. There were accusations against priests, brothers and other church workers at more than 1,000 church institutions from more than 4,400 alleged victims.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 9:08 pm Posts: 4734 Location: 5th floor, Bay 7, position 5740
From The Dallas Morning News as reported elsewhere:
Quote:
Dallas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress, one of President Donald Trump's evangelical advisers who preached the morning of his inauguration, has released a statement saying the president has the moral authority to take out North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
"When it comes to how we should deal with evil doers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear: God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary - including war - to stop evil," Jeffress said."In the case of North Korea, God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un."
Hypothetically, I don't actually have a problem with this. It's an elective and studying the Bible's cultural impact is legitimate. The problem is this is Kentucky and these classes will undoubtedly be administered and controlled by redneck evangelicals on school boards.
As people are less and less churched, this sort of thing may be more necessary.
I don't know if I trust high schools to get this right, even beyond your concern about proselytization.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 6:03 pm Posts: 9359 Location: Washington State
Biff Pocoroba wrote:
From The Dallas Morning News as reported elsewhere:
Quote:
Dallas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress, one of President Donald Trump's evangelical advisers who preached the morning of his inauguration, has released a statement saying the president has the moral authority to take out North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
"When it comes to how we should deal with evil doers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear: God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary - including war - to stop evil," Jeffress said."In the case of North Korea, God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un."
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 9:08 pm Posts: 4734 Location: 5th floor, Bay 7, position 5740
Texas-based evangelist with ties to President Donald Trump came under fire this week after video re-surfaced of her telling followers that they don't need to get a flu shot because "Jesus himself gave us the flu shot."
Gloria Copeland, a member of the president's faith advisory council, posted the video last Wednesday, but it began to gain traction this week after a number watch groups re-posted it on social-media channels.
"Listen, partners, we don't have a flu season," Copeland, 75, said in a Facebook video posted Jan. 31. "We've got a duck season, a deer season, but we don't have a flu season."
"And don't receive it when somebody threatens you with, 'Everybody is getting the flu,'" she added. "We've already had our shot. He bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases. That's what we stand on."
Copeland, a co-founder the Fort Worth, Texas-based Kenneth Copeland Ministries, went on to pray for those who were already displaying flu-like symptoms, telling them to protect themselves by declaring "I'll never have the flu."
"That's great -- that's the way it's supposed to be," she continued. "Just keep saying that 'I'll never have the flu. I'll never have the flu.' Inoculate yourself with the word of God. Flu, I bind you off the people in the name of Jesus. Jesus himself gave us the flu shot. He redeemed us from the curse of flu."
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