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I feel like I hear the phrase he's a top ten player a lot. Who are everyone's top 10 players in the league right now?
Mine: 1. Lebron 2. KD 3. Harden 4. Westbrook 5. Kawhi 6. Curry 7. Anthony Davis 8. Chris Paul 9. Paul George 10. Cousins
Sub in Butler and Giannis for George and Cousins and I like your list.
Giannis and Butler were definitely in my next 5. Giannis is still a little too unpolished for the top spots for me. I think Paul George is better than Butler, but they're pretty similar.
I feel like I hear the phrase he's a top ten player a lot. Who are everyone's top 10 players in the league right now?
Mine: 1. Lebron 2. KD 3. Harden 4. Westbrook 5. Kawhi 6. Curry 7. Anthony Davis 8. Chris Paul 9. Paul George 10. Cousins
1. LeBron 2. KD 3. Westbrook 4. Kawhi 5. Curry
6-10 gets a little blurrier for me: Harden I guess, CP3, Boogie, Healthy Anthony Davis, maybe Giannis, idk.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
I guess Harden is definitely top 6, I'm just still biased against him for all the matador defense he's been famous for.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
I guess Harden is definitely top 6, I'm just still biased against him for all the matador defense he's been famous for.
Yeah, he can play defense when he wants to. He's been slightly better this year too. His style of play irritates me at time, but there's no denying his talent.
1. Jimmy Butler 2. Kyle O'Quinn 3. Randy Foye 4. Bismack Biyambo 5. Jeremy Lin 6. Russell Westbrook 7. Joel Embiid 8. Tyler Johnson 9. Pau Gasol 10. Derrick Rose
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
His style of play irritates me at time, but there's no denying his talent.
Oh yeah, that's the other reason I can't stand him.
verb_to_trust wrote:
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
That's fair except that MD put Harden three spots ahead of Steph and I put them back-to-back, so I don't think either of us are really giving one a pass. Neither are 2 way studs like LeBron or KD can be or Kawhi is on a night in night out basis, but they're offensive games are just that good.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
It's an effort thing for me. Steph is at least trying most of the time. It's not his fault he's like 170 pounds soaking wet. Harden was a good defender with the Thunder, but he often takes entire games off even attempting to rotate or get in good defensive position.
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Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm Posts: 558
verb_to_trust wrote:
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
Hunting fouls? Sounds like efficient offense to me.
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
Hunting fouls? Sounds like efficient offense to me.
I never said it wasn't efficient. And by efficient I mean good for regular season production and much more of a struggle come playoff time when defense tightens up and free throw hunters are left with the reality of their offensive limitations. Even Harden, who is much more talented than Jimmy, saw his efficiency drop from his regular season numbers in the postseason last year.
I'd pull up Jimmy's playoff averages for a quick look but he's never made the playoffs as the number one option on his team so it wouldn't really give me accurate info.
Yep. Probably deserved MVP over Steph a few years ago too but his game isn't as pleasing to the eye. That rockets team will be interesting. Mike D has always failed as a coach in the playoffs.
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm Posts: 558
verb_to_trust wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
Hunting fouls? Sounds like efficient offense to me.
I never said it wasn't efficient. And by efficient I mean good for regular season production and much more of a struggle come playoff time when defense tightens up and free throw hunters are left with the reality of their offensive limitations. Even Harden, who is much more talented than Jimmy, saw his efficiency drop from his regular season numbers in the postseason last year.
I'd pull up Jimmy's playoff averages for a quick look but he's never made the playoffs as the number one option on his team so it wouldn't really give me accurate info.
I don't buy the term "free throw hunters" at least in the negative connotation. It takes a tremendous amount of skill, strength, balance, and endurance to put yourself in a position to get fouled consistently. And then to knock down free throws. I'm also not buying the regular season vs. playoff difference from one series against the best defense in the league for 5 games. I would venture the guess that offensive efficiency as a whole goes down in the playoffs given the quality of opponents.
It may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but putting the ball in the hands of a guy with strength, skill, and awareness to score and make the right plays is the best option especially in late game situations. The Warriors have been a different breed considering the unique skill they have at all 5 positions.
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm Posts: 558
verb_to_trust wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
Harden has been phenomenal this season.
Yep. Probably deserved MVP over Steph a few years ago too but his game isn't as pleasing to the eye. That rockets team will be interesting. Mike D has always failed as a coach in the playoffs.
Can't really blame Mike D, Steve Nash got thrown into the scorers table and never recovered and the Lakers needed a bank shot 3 to win against them. Shit happens.
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
Hunting fouls? Sounds like efficient offense to me.
I never said it wasn't efficient. And by efficient I mean good for regular season production and much more of a struggle come playoff time when defense tightens up and free throw hunters are left with the reality of their offensive limitations. Even Harden, who is much more talented than Jimmy, saw his efficiency drop from his regular season numbers in the postseason last year.
I'd pull up Jimmy's playoff averages for a quick look but he's never made the playoffs as the number one option on his team so it wouldn't really give me accurate info.
I don't buy the term "free throw hunters" at least in the negative connotation. It takes a tremendous amount of skill, strength, balance, and endurance to put yourself in a position to get fouled consistently. And then to knock down free throws. I'm also not buying the regular season vs. playoff difference from one series against the best defense in the league for 5 games. I would venture the guess that offensive efficiency as a whole goes down in the playoffs given the quality of opponents.
It may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but putting the ball in the hands of a guy with strength, skill, and awareness to score and make the right plays is the best option especially in late game situations. The Warriors have been a different breed considering the unique skill they have at all 5 positions.
I don't mind it when he drives and is fouled going to the basket. I hate the jumping into defenders and the purposely hooking his arms up under a defender in good position. Refs need to stop calling that shit.
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm Posts: 558
Monkey_Driven wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
As far as Harden is concerned if we are going to shit on him for his style of play then all the Jimmy overrating around here comes off as even more extreme. Jimmys game is Harden Lite with some defense. Hunting fouls, dominating the ball ect.
Also, why does Steph get a pass on defense and Harden doesn't? Because Steph hunts steals?
Hunting fouls? Sounds like efficient offense to me.
I never said it wasn't efficient. And by efficient I mean good for regular season production and much more of a struggle come playoff time when defense tightens up and free throw hunters are left with the reality of their offensive limitations. Even Harden, who is much more talented than Jimmy, saw his efficiency drop from his regular season numbers in the postseason last year.
I'd pull up Jimmy's playoff averages for a quick look but he's never made the playoffs as the number one option on his team so it wouldn't really give me accurate info.
I don't buy the term "free throw hunters" at least in the negative connotation. It takes a tremendous amount of skill, strength, balance, and endurance to put yourself in a position to get fouled consistently. And then to knock down free throws. I'm also not buying the regular season vs. playoff difference from one series against the best defense in the league for 5 games. I would venture the guess that offensive efficiency as a whole goes down in the playoffs given the quality of opponents.
It may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but putting the ball in the hands of a guy with strength, skill, and awareness to score and make the right plays is the best option especially in late game situations. The Warriors have been a different breed considering the unique skill they have at all 5 positions.
I don't mind it when he drives and is fouled going to the basket. I hate the jumping into defenders and the purposely hooking his arms up under a defender in good position. Refs need to stop calling that shit.
I get that, and they've done away with the wrap around attempts, but most of the time, the defenders are just not in good positions and just leave their feet. But the fact that he's a good 3 point shooter encourages allows for that to happen. He's a nightmare to defend.
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