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Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:11 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40080
digster wrote:
I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.
I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:18 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40080
mac wrote:
I would say it has two major faults - dodgy tracklisting in the second half and the presence of 'I'm open', a song which I truly hate. Other than that, it's easily one of my favourite pearl jam albums. Depending on my mood I often think it's the best thing they ever did. The musicianship is out of the park on this album, 'red mosquito', 'in my tree', 'habit' are AMAZING rockers. It has a very organic warm sound which I find very pleasant to listen to, and reminds me sonically of 70's Neil Young. Lovely earthy, woodsy vibe. 'Off he goes' has a really classy arrangement and instrumentation as do 'present tense' and 'around the bend'. I find it a shame that they are incapable of such things now, not only the subtlety aspect but good riffs - they write truly shit riffs nowadays. This record actually makes me sad when I think about what they make now - they just write trash for the sake of releasing an album. Great lyrics on this record as well, saying they are bad in comparison to his other efforts is just a non-fact. Stip, I cannot fathom how you think the sick bucket shit that he writes now is better. Though I fucking despise the I'm open lyrics the rest are all pretty good by Ed standards - certainly way better than his post binaural lyrics. Lets look at his newer efforts - When floods they came or tides they raised ever, closer became us? I used to be a crustacian in an underwater nation? Hear the sirens, covering distance in the night, the sound echoing closer, will they come for me next time? Or maybe my particular cringe favourite -
"It's okay, do you want some more?" I said, "Yeah,..." "You'll see dragons after 3 or 4..." I said, "Yeah,...
Just shut the fuck up, Ed!
I'm not saying that No code is made up of masterpiece verse, but if the good lyrics that you are comparing them too are the above I think that is nuts personally. They make me want to gag, and I cannot listen to shit like that. I don't need chest-beating, everything spelled out clearly, pep talk lyrics. I get tons of positivity and joy from in my tree and present tense. This record is underrated by the general public to a massive degree.
I have it on good authority that the bridge in severed hand is THE definitive musical description of tripping, though.
Otherwise I never cited any of the lyrics you mentioned above as particularly good or noteworthy. Nor would I. Nor did I say that his lyrics are currently better than No Code. Some songs are, some songs aren't. It depends on the songs. My point was that there was a shift in the focus of his writing that I do not think plays to his strengths.
I do like the schmaltziness of that future days lyric, though
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:31 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40080
Stip's 2 cents on the lyrics of No Code
Sometimes: they're good. I've never been particularly interested in this song, despite the fact that it came out at the height of both my pearl jam fandom and my militant atheism. But it's not because of the lyrics
Hail Hail: A dud line here or there (which is the case in just about everything he writes--I wish he'd give his lyrics a final pass) but these are great. One of the more insightful songs about relationships i've ever heard, all the more remarkable for the fact that it's not a talky singer/songwriter piece
Who You Are: They're awkward and not quite playful enough for what the song wants to do
In My Tree: I don't like trees as metaphors, and I don't think the verses are anything special, but the chorus is very good
Smile: They work for the song
Off he goes: Like Lament, I've railed about these at length. I think they're narcissistic crap
Habit: The verses are good. The chorus is not--especially with the delivery and repetition (and song lyrics, unlike poetry, have to be read in the context of their delivery--not that you can't do that with poetry, obviously).
Red Mosquito: These are also excellent. The best work on the album excepting maybe Hail Hail
Lukin: Immature and not particularly powerful or moving given the anger and rage in the song--but they also don't matter much
Present Tense: Although I really like a few moments (especially the overloaded but still nice chorus) but otherwise these are way too 'chicken soup for the soul' for me.
Mankind: Interestingly enough, while I once hated these I have a new appreciation for them, and for stone's sarcastic style in general.
I'm Open: I loved these when I was younger. They feel a bit too overwrought these days. It's just too heavy handed with the music. I think I'd like the music more and the lyrics more if they were contrasting with something else
Around the Bend: Ehh. Technically I'm at the point in my life where I should be relating to these the most. They're okay, but I've never been moved by them. They read a bit too much like someone describing an experience they've never actually had.
For a point of reference I think Eddie's best lyrics are on Vitalogy and Binaural, followed by Ten. The best moments on Vs. are as good as anything he's ever done, but Vs. is spectacularly uneven. And while I think Lightning Bolt is uneven, the best lyrical moments on that record (Infallible, Yellow Moon, parts of Lightning Bolt and Mind Your Manners) are certainly as good as the highs of No Code.
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:36 pm
The Beef
Joined: Thu January 03, 2013 10:16 pm Posts: 4450
stip wrote:
digster wrote:
I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.
I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind
I've always interpreted Present Tense as though the protagonist is addressing himself rather than trying to impart wisdom to others. A lot of No Code feels like this, actually.
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:40 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40080
McParadigm wrote:
Of everything that's possible in the hearts and minds of men, somehow it is the stippest things that I need to get offa my plate.
the Infallible lyrics are great, and I'm sure I'll write a book about them when I get around to a lightning bolt tour thread. They also work wonderfully in conversation with the Mind Your Manners lyrics. It's the smartest 1-2 political combo in the catalog outside of Insignificance/Grievance (which is better)
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:44 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40080
ABNorman wrote:
stip wrote:
digster wrote:
I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.
I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind
I've always interpreted Present Tense as though the protagonist is addressing himself rather than trying to impart wisdom to others. A lot of No Code feels like this, actually.
well narratively he is, I agree. But in other songs he uses me, so I think switching to you is significant.
I have to go take ellie to a petting zoo (and was just ordered to make sure I bring money for a pony ride) so I can't check this, but out of curiosity, what songs prior to No Code does Eddie directly sing to another person (you, as opposed to a third party narrative character or me/I)?
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:45 pm
what on earth am I talking about
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am Posts: 35567
Think it was Stip that once told me that the last few songs of No Code stopped it being perfect. once I really thought about that I couldn't unthink it. Everything after present tense is questionable.
_________________ god, it’s like you took my bottom twenty pearl jam songs and added last exit
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:49 pm
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am Posts: 21862
stip wrote:
the Infallible lyrics are great, and I'm sure I'll write a book about them when I get around to a lightning bolt tour thread.
Well, they do manage to concisely merge metaphors from at least a half dozen travel-magazine quality opinion articles. Locked doors, ships that have finally come in and are (gasp) sinking, things that slip through hands, people tempting fate, beginning at the ending, third second chances, sitting on fences. Wow.
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:05 pm
The Beef
Joined: Thu January 03, 2013 10:16 pm Posts: 4450
stip wrote:
ABNorman wrote:
stip wrote:
digster wrote:
I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.
I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind
I've always interpreted Present Tense as though the protagonist is addressing himself rather than trying to impart wisdom to others. A lot of No Code feels like this, actually.
well narratively he is, I agree. But in other songs he uses me, so I think switching to you is significant.
I have to go take ellie to a petting zoo (and was just ordered to make sure I bring money for a pony ride) so I can't check this, but out of curiosity, what songs prior to No Code does Eddie directly sing to another person (you, as opposed to a third party narrative character or me/I)?
And same basic question, when does he use we?
Release: "Can you see me now, I am myself, like you somehow" Garden: "I don't need what you have to give" Porch: "Why would you hit me?" Oceans: "You don't have to stray two oceans away" Why Go: "What you taught me" Once: "You think I got my eyes closed, but I'm lookin' at you the whole fuckin' time"
Leash: "I am fuel, you are friends... I'm no guide, but I'm by your side" "We will find a way" Rearviewmirror: "I gather speed from you fucking with me" Animal: "Torture from you to me" "Why would you wanna hurt me?"
Aye Davanita: "Jahooh" (This could just be a breathy form of "Jew", of course...) Satan's Bed: "Univited, as you know" Corduroy: "Can't let you roam inside my head" "I don't want to take what you can give" Whipping: "Oh, I'm just like you - think we've had enough... We all got scars..." Not for You: "If you hate something, don't you do it to" STBC: "Won't turn you away" "Only you deserve conceit" Last Exit: "I will give you what you're not sposed to have"
Who You Are: "You are who, who you are" Smile: "Don't it make you smile?" Habit: "It's not your way"
That was just a quick search for "you ". Saw a good few "we's" as well. Leash, Corduroy, Whipping and Who You Are are probably the strongest cases in context (some of the other lines are implied dialogue, etc).
On a side note, I'm quite sad to discover the lyric is "I don't want to take what you can give". I always thought it was "can't".
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:55 pm
tl;dr
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 6:06 pm Posts: 8595
stip wrote:
Smile: They work for the song
I have always loved how much ''Smile'' was able to do with so little--so few lyrics, so few guitar chords, such a short running time. It demands little and gives back a lot, which is probably why it's such a fan favorite that so many people are always so happy to hear. It doesn't invite the same kind of active listening that some of their deeper material does, but somehow it ends up feeling equally as rich. A wonderful moment in their catalog.
stip wrote:
Present Tense: Although I really like a few moments (especially the overloaded but still nice chorus) but otherwise these are way too 'chicken soup for the soul' for me.
The lyrics to this song are dreadful, and they're right there front and center. I would agree that there's no criticizing any of the material on ''Lightning Bolt'' if this is the sort of thing you hold up as your standard. I find the solitary, plaintive quality of the performance attractive, though--and I think both the vocal melody and the lyrics, not so much as words but as a series of consonant and vowel sounds, add to it. Eddie's diminished sense of phrasing over the years has done his later-era Deepak Chopra material no favors, the solo track ''Better Days'' probably signaling what thus far has amounted to rock bottom.
Overall I think ''Yield'' and ''Binaural'' are both significant leaps forward for Pearl Jam lyrically. The other songwriters in the band bring a welcome balance of obscurity to Eddie's paper-thin philosophizing, and the discrepancies in vocabulary cast a sort of sideways shadow over the platitudes Eddie could never resist writing and still can't. I hadn't really considered it until this thread but I would agree that the lyrics on ''No Code'' could reasonably count as its major flaw. Lucky for them it's probably the most musically compelling record in their whole arsenal.
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:44 pm
Future Drummer
Joined: Mon July 08, 2013 5:47 pm Posts: 3062 Location: Louisville, KY
No Code Weaknesses 1. Including Mankind in lieu of Brain of JFK 2. Mankind -> I'm Open -> Around the Bend is a crap album closing sequence that doesn't relate to the album. The latter two tracks are fine independently, but this sequence is easily skipped, leaving an almost perfect 10 track album in front of it.
That's it
No Code Strengths 1. Everything else. This and Vitalogy have always been neck and neck as my favorite PJ albums. Pearl Jam is to me what they were when they made Vitalogy and transitioned to this. This part of the band's evolution has defined them for me for years
Post subject: Re: What is Each Album's Major Flaw?: No Code
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:48 pm
what on earth am I talking about
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am Posts: 35567
It's quite a development too, Vitalogy into No Code. But No Code feels like a natural follow up. Something that hasnt happened again until S/T being an answer to Riot act and Backspacer being an answer to S/T
_________________ god, it’s like you took my bottom twenty pearl jam songs and added last exit
Its biggest flaw is probably that stupid moss line in "Who You Are".
No, yeah, forget everything I said before. This is right.
I like your underwater description earlier.
And I don't know that I'd go so far as to defend that lyric, but it does send a signal that the song is meant to be playful stab at faux mysticism. Without that line the song invites you to take it more seriously, which plays against its strengths
I think the inclusion of the words "soul" and "moss" do a much better job of cementing the song's playfulness.
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