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 Post subject: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Wed November 20, 2013 8:30 am 
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edited

i was pretty f ' ing wrong on this one


Last edited by hlniv on Thu November 21, 2013 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Wed November 20, 2013 4:09 pm 
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I never heard of a soundboard for this show. There are a bunch of different known recordings though:

From hardtoimagine, via the wayback machine:
Quote:
09/29/96 : Downing Stadium (Randall's Island) - New York, New York USA
bootleg CD: 'The Longest Day' (source unknown)
Audio Technica 831b > Sony TCD-D7
Sonic Studios > unknown DAT
Sony ECM-909 > unknown DAT
Core Sounds > Sony TCD-D7
video (shot from back, no zoom, 2 min. cut in middle of "Porch")
video (missing "Corduroy", "Better Man", "Not For You", and all encores)
video (shot from lawn, missing "Rats" to "Porch" and ???)
Countryman Isomax II > Sony TCD-D7


Back around 2000 when people were still mailing CDs around to trade shows, the EQ'ed version of the Sony ECM-909 recording was distributed through the perma-tree. Basically the point of the perma-tree was for people who knew how to make good CD copies to get a good recording distributed without making bad copies (no 2 second gaps, verified burns, no clicks/pops, etc). This is why torrenting a set of FLAC files is amazing, but that's beside the point :)

At the time, the ECM-909 tape was considered the best source. The standards (all-around) feeding the perma-trees were very high. You had to prove your burner could record an 80 minute gapless disc and not mess it up (many couldn't)

I think my rip (DCL) of the perma-tree discs is what's included in the audio archives. I kept up with recordings and trading pretty actively and never heard of a soundboard. This was a pretty well-circulated show, and at the time, the longest show they had played. If there was a soundboard circulating, I'm sure it would have risen to the top pretty quick.

I also have a copy of the Sonic Studios (DSM6) recording, and I don't know how much the others ever circulated (except the bootleg CD of course)


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Wed November 20, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Last edited by hlniv on Thu November 21, 2013 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 4:42 am 
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So, yeah.... I got a chance to pull the old cassette and listen to it. It's not soundboard at all. My brain is old from too much bourbon, I guess. Sounds like the audio archive source. I must be batshit crazy. This thread should be removed


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 4:45 am 
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Leehro wrote:
I never heard of a soundboard for this show. There are a bunch of different known recordings though:

From hardtoimagine, via the wayback machine:
Quote:
09/29/96 : Downing Stadium (Randall's Island) - New York, New York USA
bootleg CD: 'The Longest Day' (source unknown)
Audio Technica 831b > Sony TCD-D7
Sonic Studios > unknown DAT
Sony ECM-909 > unknown DAT
Core Sounds > Sony TCD-D7
video (shot from back, no zoom, 2 min. cut in middle of "Porch")
video (missing "Corduroy", "Better Man", "Not For You", and all encores)
video (shot from lawn, missing "Rats" to "Porch" and ???)
Countryman Isomax II > Sony TCD-D7


Back around 2000 when people were still mailing CDs around to trade shows, the EQ'ed version of the Sony ECM-909 recording was distributed through the perma-tree. Basically the point of the perma-tree was for people who knew how to make good CD copies to get a good recording distributed without making bad copies (no 2 second gaps, verified burns, no clicks/pops, etc). This is why torrenting a set of FLAC files is amazing, but that's beside the point :)

At the time, the ECM-909 tape was considered the best source. The standards (all-around) feeding the perma-trees were very high. You had to prove your burner could record an 80 minute gapless disc and not mess it up (many couldn't)

I think my rip (DCL) of the perma-tree discs is what's included in the audio archives. I kept up with recordings and trading pretty actively and never heard of a soundboard. This was a pretty well-circulated show, and at the time, the longest show they had played. If there was a soundboard circulating, I'm sure it would have risen to the top pretty quick.

I also have a copy of the Sonic Studios (DSM6) recording, and I don't know how much the others ever circulated (except the bootleg CD of course)


With that many sources, why is only one circulating these days?


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 3:26 pm 
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matt reeder wrote:
With that many sources, why is only one circulating these days?


Not sure. HtI had a lot of listings for stuff that didn't circulate. Reasons could be that the tapers compared tapes and identified a clearly superior one. I wasn't there but I think the sound at the show wasn't great, so the rest of those recordings might have just not been as good.

Plus the show was 17 years ago, and a "best source" was identified when the trading community was very active.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Leehro wrote:
matt reeder wrote:
With that many sources, why is only one circulating these days?


Not sure. HtI had a lot of listings for stuff that didn't circulate. Reasons could be that the tapers compared tapes and identified a clearly superior one. I wasn't there but I think the sound at the show wasn't great, so the rest of those recordings might have just not been as good.

Plus the show was 17 years ago, and a "best source" was identified when the trading community was very active.


See, I don't get this. If there are that many sources to a show, shouldn't they be out there? Most of the other bands I collect (Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Soundgarden) have a dedicated community who circulate EVERY source of a show that circulates. Why? Because they want every source out there. But beyond that, everyone has different tastes. This community seems to just decide that the SV series is good enough and lets it go. I just don't understand it.

9/29/1996 is a top 5 Pearl Jam show for me. I want to hear the other recordings.

This actually makes me want to bring up a topic on alternate recordings...


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 9:09 pm 
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matt reeder wrote:
See, I don't get this. If there are that many sources to a show, shouldn't they be out there? Most of the other bands I collect (Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Soundgarden) have a dedicated community who circulate EVERY source of a show that circulates. Why? Because they want every source out there. But beyond that, everyone has different tastes. This community seems to just decide that the SV series is good enough and lets it go. I just don't understand it.

9/29/1996 is a top 5 Pearl Jam show for me. I want to hear the other recordings.

This actually makes me want to bring up a topic on alternate recordings...


Yeah I don't know what it is about the pearl jam community. Last I checked, other taping-friendly bands still had big trading communities for audience recordings. Maybe it was the timing of the official bootlegs, maybe it was the fact that the kids who were following the band and trading the shows grew up and grew out of it :).

I was really enjoying collecting the shows this year again, comparing all the different sources. It's easier than ever to keep them all. And I always enjoy when a new source/transfer of a classic show pops up.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 9:31 pm 
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See, I remember when the alternate sources of 11/17/1996 and 3/15/1998 popped up last year. I'd never listened to those shows much until superior upgrades surfaced and now they are 2 of my favorites. Actually, I think the 1996 show is now my second-favorite of the whole tour (after Randall's Island). It's a fantastic show.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96 - soundboard?
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 10:28 pm 
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matt reeder wrote:
Leehro wrote:
matt reeder wrote:
With that many sources, why is only one circulating these days?


Not sure. HtI had a lot of listings for stuff that didn't circulate. Reasons could be that the tapers compared tapes and identified a clearly superior one. I wasn't there but I think the sound at the show wasn't great, so the rest of those recordings might have just not been as good.

Plus the show was 17 years ago, and a "best source" was identified when the trading community was very active.


See, I don't get this. If there are that many sources to a show, shouldn't they be out there? Most of the other bands I collect (Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Soundgarden) have a dedicated community who circulate EVERY source of a show that circulates. Why? Because they want every source out there. But beyond that, everyone has different tastes. This community seems to just decide that the SV series is good enough and lets it go. I just don't understand it.

:thumbsup:

All of this, agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Thu November 21, 2013 10:53 pm 
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it takes alot of time to do it all properly, let alone you need access to the original recording, or as close to it as possible, you have to remember these were all recorded onto tape, so tracking down original sources may not be that easy, you need connections to help out. Look at the names in the text files on the old transfers, there were only a handful of people who did it, people like BLG, Leehro, Meghan house, DCL, Spacedvest, Tapeworm, there are more that don't spring to mind, but everyone owes those people a huge thanks for getting it done to preserve the quality that everyone gets to enjoy. I've taped my fair share of shows and usually working on the recording alone can take a good 12 hours or more, multiply that by all those alternative sources that may not sound as good and that is a whole lot of spare time to find.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri November 22, 2013 12:43 am 
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coffeecup wrote:
it takes alot of time to do it all properly, let alone you need access to the original recording, or as close to it as possible, you have to remember these were all recorded onto tape, so tracking down original sources may not be that easy, you need connections to help out. Look at the names in the text files on the old transfers, there were only a handful of people who did it, people like BLG, Leehro, Meghan house, DCL, Spacedvest, Tapeworm, there are more that don't spring to mind, but everyone owes those people a huge thanks for getting it done to preserve the quality that everyone gets to enjoy. I've taped my fair share of shows and usually working on the recording alone can take a good 12 hours or more, multiply that by all those alternative sources that may not sound as good and that is a whole lot of spare time to find.


All of the other taping communities out there seem to have figured it out. They just transfer the recording, torrent it (or back in the old days, B+P it) and let it spread. That's all. There's no need to remaster it or anything. Many of these have been transferred - they've just disappeared from circulation. It's not like the Soundgarden community where like 50% of the recordings out there have fallen off the face of the earth and actually need to be transferred (since most of them are on cassette), remastered and torrented.

I'm not talking about the people back in the day - I'm talking about how we've settled on standard versions of shows now and just forgotten about all of the other sources out there. The people back in the day were the ones putting all of the sources out there. Now we just have like 1 or 2 sources of a show. I'm not saying we need 6-7 versions of every show but there are some recordings out there I'd love to hear that seem to have completely disappeared.

Believe me, I know how much time this stuff takes. I know some of the people you mentioned above so I'll ask around and see what they say.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri November 22, 2013 3:20 am 
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coffeecup wrote:
, people like Leehro, ... DCL,


Both me :thumbsup:

But to contribute, I think that circulation of multiple sources was never big among pj traders. I don't remember seeing too many trade lists with multiple copies of a lot of shows, even back in the day. Occasionally sure, but by the time it was feasible to torrent a show I think the official bootlegs killed the taping/trading community


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri November 22, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Leehro wrote:
I think the official bootlegs killed the taping/trading community


I know that's what happened with me. I have a huge box full of b&p traded tapes, and there was a time from about '97-'99 when I was really into finding digital versions to replace those tapes. I remember your site being a big part of that process for me. I remember listening to different versions of the same show fairly regularly then. Then they announced the 2000 official bootleg series, and I basically stopped. I figured I had enough, and there was a ton of new show material with A+ quality to sort through. Somebody offered to get me the full Audio Archives set not long after, and I didn't see a need to re-visit the show collecting hobby, and I basically stopped. I got back into a bit with the '04 VFC tour, but it was never the same. Life happened, got married, etc... Grew up and out of it is accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Wed July 22, 2015 7:30 pm 
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So, a different source for this show got posted in the Trading forum-
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5988

I would like to ask a favor - Anyone that grabbed this - could you be so kind as to post a dropbox or mega link? I will be indebted to you accordingly.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT- oops,thought this was in the live forum.... Well, anyway, there's two threads on it now. So deal with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:27 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:27 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Stop it. No shenanigans here.

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 Post subject: Re: Randall's Island II - 9/29/96
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:38 pm 
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Yeah, the Trading forum is a shenanigan-free zone. :cop:

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