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Maybe it's better to look at the PRAMG as the Post-Epic/Sony era instead.
I wonder how differently the post-Riot Act era might've looked if the band had a record label behind them like Sony who'd worked with them for a long time and understood where they were coming from.
They've been forced to engage in the commerce and promotion aspect of being a rock band themselves and it invariably feels awkward and ham-fisted. They're not very good at it and it arguably hurts the perception of the band.
The shift in 1998 really just brought PJ back to the standard observed by all other bands of their profile at the time. So it felt like a big about-face for them relative to the exceptional circumstances they had created in the years just prior, but not necessarily something that felt weird in general, especially since a lot of it came with a sort of mea culpa to the effect of, “Hey, we tried this, we thought we were saving you money, but we realize that mostly we were just making it harder for you to see us live and find out what we were up to.” Same with the official bootlegs: “We see that people are charging $40 for bad recordings of our concerts; we can do this right and charge you $15 for good recordings of them.” Classic win-win.
To me the PRAMG concept rests entirely on the decrease in new creative work, coupled with a seeming increase in effort to sell other things, many of them nonmusical and some of them pretty silly. When a band is creatively engaged, that marketing feels like part of the churn that keeps the whole thing going. When they’re not, but the rest of it continues anyway, it calls attention to the missing ingredient.
The fact that the PRAMG era dovetails perfectly with the rise of social media is no doubt a huge part of why some people register this the way they do. And it is overwhelmingly not a phenomenon unique to PJ.
I wonder what the correlation is between merch and the decline of record sale revenue. I imagine pretty high
That tracks — I’ve found myself on the mailing lists for the online stores for both Miles Davis and Jimi Hendrix, and they are relentless in a way that makes Pearl Jam seem restrained and modest. Just an endless barrage of crap — hoodies, t-shirts, shot glasses, etc., always on some limited time sale, last chance, bargains galore, etc.
No artist intent there obviously, but…lots of merch. Post-life moneygrab
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40187
Birds in Hell wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:
Maybe it's better to look at the PRAMG as the Post-Epic/Sony era instead.
I wonder how differently the post-Riot Act era might've looked if the band had a record label behind them like Sony who'd worked with them for a long time and understood where they were coming from.
They've been forced to engage in the commerce and promotion aspect of being a rock band themselves and it invariably feels awkward and ham-fisted. They're not very good at it and it arguably hurts the perception of the band.
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
Joined: Wed October 29, 2014 11:49 pm Posts: 751 Location: PC
Kevin Davis wrote:
That tracks — I’ve found myself on the mailing lists for the online stores for both Miles Davis and Jimi Hendrix, and they are relentless in a way that makes Pearl Jam seem restrained and modest. Just an endless barrage of crap — hoodies, t-shirts, shot glasses, etc., always on some limited time sale, last chance, bargains galore, etc.
No artist intent there obviously, but…lots of merch. Post-life moneygrab
Its more of a pop culture thing though? its likely someone wearing a jimi hendrix hoodie wouldn't listen to jimi hendrix at all. like someone wearing a Jordan jersey possibly has never watched the bulls.
who ever is put in charge of PLMG for pearl jam will do the same if it becomes cool to wear pearl jam merch, which it wont..
_________________ this song is called cropduster..
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 2:23 am Posts: 3681 Location: The In Between
Jorge wrote:
Ms Harmless wrote:
I think my first "wait what??" was the Verizon deal during S/T; that's not to say there was nothing before that (and I find Stip's argument that it began at Yield very compelling), but I'd really "come of age" and was well into my 20s when S/T came out, so the commercial choices they made (or maybe just lazily sat by while other people made on their behalf) became a tougher pill to swallow
in 2024, I think there are various factors that I've come to terms with, including but not limited to
- they've got older, of course, and no longer feel they need to prove anything; they want to find the sweet spot between enjoying their music, and delegating on everything else (which, conversely, can at times give the impression they phoned in the music)
- I'm convinced Ed has / had trauma from Roskilde; he processed it closely on Riot Act; then Pearl Jam was reborn, a new band whether we like it or not; they didn't want to be a band that started moshpits anymore, in multiple ways; I think of the fact that Ed laughed at old footage of himself when he went on Jools Holland (not an amused laugh, a pained, embarrassed... take it away from me laugh), and the music he made increasingly being about how we don't have much time left, so we have to love, now, before we're gone
- this all seemed to result in a band who "fought to get it back again" because life is too short to keep sabotaging our career anymore
I think that over the years I've grown both apathetic to, and accepting of, the things I haven't loved about the PRAMG, and also in my empathy; I might not like what happened but I know (as a traumatised person myself) that there's a pre-trauma me, and a post-trauma me, and however much I'd like to reach back and salvage whatever cool bits I can find about pre-trauma me, it ain't gonna happen; I go forward as I am and as things are, or I stop; Pearl Jam decided not to stop, so we got Pearl Jam 2.0
This is all valid, and also I think Mike expressed in an interview the feeling of looking around at the music scene around the time of Riot Act and feeling adrift, like they were being left behind
They were also left behind by their peers. Nirvana and real Alice In Chains were over. Soundgarden and STP were done as far as anyone knew. I really wonder what albums would have been like if they had all still been alive and making music, pushing each other. Part of Pearl Jam’s problem was no one was there to call them on their bullshit. If Cobain heard Avocado annd given his opinion and Layne was on a tripod follow-up, you can bet your ass PJ would have stepped their game up.
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40187
Ran this through the Pearl Jam Ranker. Studio albums only here is my list - feels roughly correct. I was inconsistent at times between my current and historical love for the songs, and in some cases whether I thought something was objectively better vs my preference. Left out the reprise (which I do like). Unemployable and Supersonic are the only two songs I don't like. I swear I don't say this for the shock value, but if you divided Pearl Jam into eras (say Ten-Vitalogy, No Code - Riot Act, and S/T - Present) I do prefer this era to the No Code-Riot Act run as a whole, even if the highs of the No Code-Riot Act run probably top the highs here.
Dance of the Clairvoyants (Gigaton) Mind Your Manners (Lightning Bolt) Life Wasted (Pearl Jam) Superblood Wolfmoon (Gigaton) Who Ever Said (Gigaton) World Wide Suicide (Pearl Jam) Comatose (Pearl Jam) Lightning Bolt (Lightning Bolt) Force of Nature (Backspacer) The Fixer (Backspacer) Dark Matter (Dark Matter) Quick Escape (Gigaton) Sleeping By Myself (Lightning Bolt) Parachutes (Pearl Jam) Gonna See My Friend (Backspacer) Yellow Moon (Lightning Bolt) Comes Then Goes (Gigaton) Amongst the Waves (Backspacer) Got Some (Backspacer) Sirens (Lightning Bolt) Pendulum (Lightning Bolt) Future Days (Lightning Bolt) River Cross (Gigaton) Seven O'Clock (Gigaton) Unthought Known (Backspacer) Johnny Guitar (Backspacer) Come Back (Pearl Jam) Speed of Sound (Backspacer) Buckle Up (Gigaton) Severed Hand (Pearl Jam) Swallowed Whole (Lightning Bolt) Retrograde (Gigaton) The End (Backspacer) Marker in the Sand (Pearl Jam) Never Destination (Gigaton) Gone (Pearl Jam) Just Breathe (Backspacer) Alright (Gigaton) Infallible (Lightning Bolt) Let the Records Play (Lightning Bolt) Army Reserve (Pearl Jam) Big Wave (Pearl Jam) Inside Job (Pearl Jam) Take the Long Way (Gigaton) My Father's Son (Lightning Bolt) Getaway (Lightning Bolt) Unemployable (Pearl Jam) Supersonic (Backspacer)
i kind of can't get behind this concept anymore, because S/T now feels to me like "back when they were still great," and the real drop off started with BS.
yeah, agreed.
Ill rank from BS onwards and in no particular order:
Got Some The Fixer Speed Of Sound Johnny Guitar Sirens Yellow Moon My Father Son Who Ever Said Dance Quick Escape 7 O clock Take The Long Way River Cross
I would need to include Unemployable, Army Reserve and probably Amongst The Waves too.
Joined: Sun January 26, 2020 12:10 pm Posts: 12384 Location: Warwickshire, UK
"Big Wave" was the first PJ song I literally couldn't stand; years later I now know it was basically cos my ex couldn't stand it, and I just copied her; I'm a Big Wave believer now
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