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Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
digster wrote:
You'll have an aneurysm playing the "if this were any other president" game with Trump, but the USPS story really is at the top of the list.
The USPS story fits squarely into the "nope, can't process that information" part of my brain.
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
It's what makes the "everyone is so hard on Trump" discourse so absurd. In 2012, a President Obama says he's stopping the Post Office from getting funding to stop people from voting to help him win an election? The GOP would have lit the White House on fire by now. It's a 50/50 shot this even makes every front page tomorrow.
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
Sort of like unanimously support?
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
so which goalposts are we going for here, sir?
Same ones as always--the level of political action. I can restate for you if it's confusing: "I condemn the treatment of Palestinians, but I refuse to take even the most anodyne political action against the state responsible for their treatment" is a contradiction in terms. It is, as I implied in my second post here, not a legitimate and coherent political position as long as we also assume that condemning an apartheid state would be expressed as a political action. If, on the other hand, we take it to be a piece of meaningless political theatre, then in a sense it's coherent but only tautologically.
Good lord.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2837 Location: Connecticut
Mickey wrote:
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
Love this post.
digster wrote:
It's what makes the "everyone is so hard on Trump" discourse so absurd. In 2012, a President Obama says he's stopping the Post Office from getting funding to stop people from voting to help him win an election? The GOP would have lit the White House on fire by now. It's a 50/50 shot this even makes every front page tomorrow.
It is so depressing that I accidentally stumbled on to this story today. He really could shoot someone on 5th Ave and be fine.
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
Not exactly "denouncing the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements", but then again why confuse the jello-brains with reality?
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Bi_3 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Mickey wrote:
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
Not exactly "denouncing the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements", but then again why confuse the jello-brains with reality?
You're right--that's exactly what I had in mind, the Rubio bill that Harris eventually signed on to. Hmm, how did Marco Rubio talk about this bill when it was proposed?
Quote:
Rubio, Cardin Introduce Senate Resolution Condemning Anti-Israel Efforts at United Nations
Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Ben Cardin (D-MD) today introduced a Senate resolution objecting to the passage of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334, as well as all efforts that undermine direct, bilateral negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians for a secure and peaceful settlement. They are joined in this effort by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY), and Senators Michael Bennet (D-CO), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Bob Casey (D-PA), Chris Coons (D-DE), John Cornyn (R-TX), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Joe Donnelly (D-IN), Joni Ernst (R-IA), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Dean Heller (R-NV), John McCain (R-AZ), Bob Menendez (D-NJ), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Rob Portman (R-OH), Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), and Todd Young (R-IN).
“Efforts to delegitimize Israel have been underway a long time at the United Nations and have now sadly been aided by the outgoing administration, but the time has come to turn back the tide and renew America’s commitment to the Jewish state,” said Rubio. “When it comes to the U.S.-Israel alliance, we believe that senators of both parties must stand firmly with Israel and condemn efforts to undermine Israel's legitimacy. This resolution expresses the Senate's rejection of continued anti-Israel efforts at the United Nations, reiterates our commitment to Israel, and urges the incoming administration to work with Congress on this issue.”
From Rubio's press office, by the way--so okay, sure, they didn't "denounce" the UN vote, they only objected to it, condemned it, and rejected it. You really got me there, great work today.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2837 Location: Connecticut
UN resolution or not, we all have eyes (I presume). A Palestinian state becomes less & less possible as Israel asserts itself and annexes their land. If we saw this elsewhere, we'd have a majority of politicians engaged in at least some faux outrage, rather than overwhelming support for it. Unless you view "Israeli security" as being dependent on Palestinians being their subjects, this doesn't make sense in any non-cynical way.
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
Not exactly "denouncing the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements", but then again why confuse the jello-brains with reality?
You're right--that's exactly what I had in mind, the Rubio bill that Harris eventually signed on to. Hmm, how did Marco Rubio talk about this bill when it was proposed?
Quote:
Rubio, Cardin Introduce Senate Resolution Condemning Anti-Israel Efforts at United Nations
Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Ben Cardin (D-MD) today introduced a Senate resolution objecting to the passage of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334, as well as all efforts that undermine direct, bilateral negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians for a secure and peaceful settlement. They are joined in this effort by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY), and Senators Michael Bennet (D-CO), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Bob Casey (D-PA), Chris Coons (D-DE), John Cornyn (R-TX), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Joe Donnelly (D-IN), Joni Ernst (R-IA), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Dean Heller (R-NV), John McCain (R-AZ), Bob Menendez (D-NJ), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Rob Portman (R-OH), Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), and Todd Young (R-IN).
“Efforts to delegitimize Israel have been underway a long time at the United Nations and have now sadly been aided by the outgoing administration, but the time has come to turn back the tide and renew America’s commitment to the Jewish state,” said Rubio. “When it comes to the U.S.-Israel alliance, we believe that senators of both parties must stand firmly with Israel and condemn efforts to undermine Israel's legitimacy. This resolution expresses the Senate's rejection of continued anti-Israel efforts at the United Nations, reiterates our commitment to Israel, and urges the incoming administration to work with Congress on this issue.”
From Rubio's press office, by the way--so okay, sure, they didn't "denounce" the UN vote, they only objected to it, condemned it, and rejected it. You really got me there, great work today.
What they denounced was the UN interfering in the direct negotiations between the two states. It's right there in the bill:
"Calls for such resolution to be repealed or fundamentally altered and allows all final status issues toward a two-state solution to be resolved through direct bilateral negotiations between the parties. Rejects efforts by outside bodies to impose solutions that set back the cause of peace."
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Interfering by...condemning the settlements which are not only illegal but are in themselves a pretty big interference to negotiations and definitely "set back the cause of peace." C'mon man, just because you're not able to sift between text and context doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. This argument only holds water if you think the "peace process" is contingent on the rest of the world allowing the Israeli state to operate with impunity in the interim. Maybe you do think that! But then you can't really claim to condemn the treatment of the Palestinians at the same time.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8898 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Mickey wrote:
Interfering by...condemning the settlements which are not only illegal but are in themselves a pretty big interference to negotiations and definitely "set back the cause of peace." C'mon man, just because you're not able to sift between text and context doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. This argument only holds water if you think the "peace process" is contingent on the rest of the world allowing the Israeli state to operate with impunity in the interim. Maybe you do think that! But then you can't really claim to condemn the treatment of the Palestinians at the same time.
But he said he did, Mickey. So accept his cognitive dissonance and admit that he's within his right to contradict himself.
Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am Posts: 22365
i am going to go on record and say that trag agrees with Mickey's posts
_________________ All posts by this account, even those referencing real things, are entirely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only; i.e. very low-quality entertainment. These may contain coarse language and due to their content should not be viewed by anyone
Interfering by...condemning the settlements which are not only illegal but are in themselves a pretty big interference to negotiations and definitely "set back the cause of peace." C'mon man, just because you're not able to sift between text and context doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. This argument only holds water if you think the "peace process" is contingent on the rest of the world allowing the Israeli state to operate with impunity in the interim. Maybe you do think that! But then you can't really claim to condemn the treatment of the Palestinians at the same time.
The boundary lines and settlements are the debate. When the UN interferes, the negotiations become unbalanced and the Palestinian side will no longer feel the need to compromise, killing the actual negotiation part and we end up nowhere... again. Just like Kamala Harris, you are smart enough to realize that
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am Posts: 22365
the GOP Senate has gotten off too easy these last few years, with everyone always piling on Trump as the blame-recipient
i acknowledge there will be a certain percentage of gerrymandering and ad hoc disenfranchisement tactics that sadly are 'always going to happen' - and you gotta try and fight them
but this USPS thing will put millions of American lives at risk
the Legislative branch is supposed to keep the Executive branch in check and they do less than shit at that
GOP Senators are a bunch of groveling little pussies blind from being willfully doused in the face with mouthfuls of Eric & Don Jr's c*m
_________________ All posts by this account, even those referencing real things, are entirely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only; i.e. very low-quality entertainment. These may contain coarse language and due to their content should not be viewed by anyone
Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am Posts: 22365
looks like that is in Portland
this is what they get for being mean to the badgeless federal strong-arm squad
you hurt their feelings
you don’t get the invite to their birthday party
because they take the malebox away
_________________ All posts by this account, even those referencing real things, are entirely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only; i.e. very low-quality entertainment. These may contain coarse language and due to their content should not be viewed by anyone
Bunch of new live call polls out today show Biden continuing to sit at around +10, and winning suburban women by over 20 points. I guess they didn’t get the memo (or see the train ad).
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