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Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Ah, the ol "the problems are bad, but their causes are very good" argument.
This shit is what you teach at Harvard?
No, of course not--at Harvard they teach that "we condemn the treatment of Palestinians, but we unanimously support the state responsible for their treatment" is a legitimate and coherent political position.
It is though
Okay, sure buddy, you're a very serious thinker.
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 47165 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
I'm staunchly team Mickey on this one. Israel's record as aggressor, rather than defender, is well-solidified by this point. The way the money flows from the US to dead Palestinians is fucked.
Ah, the ol "the problems are bad, but their causes are very good" argument.
This shit is what you teach at Harvard?
No, of course not--at Harvard they teach that "we condemn the treatment of Palestinians, but we unanimously support the state responsible for their treatment" is a legitimate and coherent political position.
It is though
Okay, sure buddy, you're a very serious thinker.
Please, please go on.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
I think, of course, that you can support Israel's right to exist as a nation-state while condemning their treatment of Palestinians and the apartheid system they've imposed. But you cannot "unanimously support" Israel or "strongly support Israeli security" while making the same condemnations, since you would have to consider everything that unanimous support is endorsing or what sort of actions those security forces are engaged in. It is a clear contradiction in terms.
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am Posts: 22393
trag so happy to agree with mickey again after a couple of days of independent thought
_________________ All posts by this account, even those referencing real things, are entirely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only; i.e. very low-quality entertainment. These may contain coarse language and due to their content should not be viewed by anyone
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Homeowners stick together
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am Posts: 22393
i just look forward to 2335 when Israel v Palestine is no longer a thing bc the glaciers melted and retook that region back into the sea
_________________ All posts by this account, even those referencing real things, are entirely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only; i.e. very low-quality entertainment. These may contain coarse language and due to their content should not be viewed by anyone
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Giving new meaning to "Palestine will be free, from the river..."
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
I think, of course, that you can support Israel's right to exist as a nation-state while condemning their treatment of Palestinians and the apartheid system they've imposed. But you cannot "unanimously support" Israel or "strongly support Israeli security" while making the same condemnations, since you would have to consider everything that unanimous support is endorsing or what sort of actions those security forces are engaged in. It is a clear contradiction in terms.
Only if you presume the state has absolute control over those actions.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
Sort of like unanimously support?
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
Sort of like unanimously support?
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
Sort of like unanimously support?
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
so which goalposts are we going for here, sir?
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Hmm, does the state have absolute (or, we could say, sufficient, since only assigning blame at the standard of "absolute" is on its face absurd) control over its military forces, its administration of the border and border checkpoints, the utility grid, ethnically-based employment practices and suffrage, not to mention massively unequal distribution of resources, the illegal settlements it refuses to prosecute, etc. etc.? Boy, great question, you really are a penetrating intelligence.
Sort of like unanimously support?
No bud, not like that at all, because while no state has "absolute control" over every member of its military and law enforcement (a truly absurd argument, meant only to obfuscate by suggesting that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is somehow out of their control or driven by rogue agents when we know it has operated as official state policy for decades), politicians (like Kamala) do offer blanket and unconditional support to Israel when, for example, she joined Marco Rubio to denounce the UN Resolution condemning the illegal Israeli settlements. If you won't even sign on to a non-enforceable condemnation of a clearly illegal practice undertaken will full support of Netanyahu's government, it's safe to say that your support of that government or that state is pretty unconditional, at least at the level of political action (milquetoast comments notwithstanding).
so which goalposts are we going for here, sir?
Same ones as always--the level of political action. I can restate for you if it's confusing: "I condemn the treatment of Palestinians, but I refuse to take even the most anodyne political action against the state responsible for their treatment" is a contradiction in terms. It is, as I implied in my second post here, not a legitimate and coherent political position as long as we also assume that condemning an apartheid state would be expressed as a political action. If, on the other hand, we take it to be a piece of meaningless political theatre, then in a sense it's coherent but only tautologically.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Before we move on I do have to note--I've seen a lot of jello-brained posts on this website, I've even made a few myself, but even I was not prepared for "Are you presuming the Israeli state is in control of the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians?" The Mods should charge a fee for this kind of premium content and run it like a zoo.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
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