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So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.
I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.
Joined: Wed December 12, 2012 10:33 pm Posts: 6932
liebzz wrote:
So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.
I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.
Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 7:41 am Posts: 19719 Location: Cumberland, RI
Green Habit wrote:
liebzz wrote:
So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.
I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.
Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.
If the Dems win the presidency and a slight senate majority, is it "Goodbye, filibuster," you think?
Joined: Wed December 12, 2012 10:33 pm Posts: 6932
Simple Torture wrote:
If the Dems win the presidency and a slight senate majority, is it "Goodbye, filibuster," you think?
I think it depends on whether they can even wrangle 50 votes for whatever their preferred legislation is. If Joe Manchin is going to say no to it, why waste the nuclear option then? The Republicans had the same problem with their attempt to repeal parts of the ACA, and had to resort to that chimera-like tax cut bill that passed under the reconciliation loophole.
(To be clear, I think the filibuster is incredibly dumb and should have been junked a long time ago.)
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2831 Location: Connecticut
Green Habit wrote:
liebzz wrote:
So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.
I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.
Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.
This is why I have trouble with the "appeal to the center" argument. It didn't help Obama when he tried, and I have to believe Hillary would've met even more opposition, even though for many she was the moderate one. Bernie did better in open primaries versus closed ones, so I'm not sure independents are necessarily looking for some centrist. That said, if it's about personality/style then there's probably a viable path for those moderates who can connect in a personal way. Amy Klobuchar, Joe Biden and Julian Castro (long shot at this point) seem pretty likable.
So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.
I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.
Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.
This is why I have trouble with the "appeal to the center" argument. It didn't help Obama when he tried, and I have to believe Hillary would've met even more opposition, even though for many she was the moderate one. Bernie did better in open primaries versus closed ones, so I'm not sure independents are necessarily looking for some centrist. That said, if it's about personality/style then there's probably a viable path for those moderates who can connect in a personal way. Amy Klobuchar, Joe Biden and Julian Castro (long shot at this point) seem pretty likable.
Klobuchar is pretty centrist so far, I’d like to hear more from her.
But dude, Obama accomplished a lot of good in his term. Maybe isn’t wasn’t as far as some people would have liked, but his approach was very good for this country and the world at large
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
I am not talking about electability here, though I have hard time believing the general public will opt for the populist they don’t know against the one they do...I am talking about governing. I think if we are looking for another way to govern more peaceably and less divisively we may not want to look to someone as unmovable as Sanders. It will be basically the reverse of what we have now, but without the whole collusion and constant scandal thing going on.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
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