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 Post subject: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 7:42 pm 
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On my mind after the protests over the weekend.

I had this link I wanted to share, but I'm not really sure it fits anywhere else. So now we have a thread about all sorts of global food culture. Consider this an RM version of Bourdain's Parts Unknown, I guess.

A friend and former co-worker of mine has devoted much of his life to documenting the food culture in Houston. If you read his writing about food, you can easily substitute Houston for much of America. We're perhaps the most fortunate place on the planet when it comes to how much there is to eat in 2017. Below is perhaps the most wide-spread thing he's written, and it's worth a look if anyone is interested in this topic.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/g ... er-premium

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 7:48 pm 
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/201 ... oking-star

Quote:
"And there were beans and tortillas and I was like, wait, I know what all these things are. I didn't know a tortilla was a tortilla, to me it was a flat bread, and I was like, I recognize this," Bhatt recalls.

Chiles, cumin, cilantro — Tex-Mex cooking shares many of the same ingredients as the Indian food he grew up with.

"I loved it," Bhatt says. "That was where I first made the connection between how similar things were between India and the U.S."


:li:

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 7:49 pm 
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washing machine wrote:
We're perhaps the most fortunate place on the planet when it comes to how much there is to eat in 2017.

Do you mean volume of food available, or variety of foods/flavors/cuisines?
We are fortunate in both respects, but they both come with grave compromises.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 7:51 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
washing machine wrote:
We're perhaps the most fortunate place on the planet when it comes to how much there is to eat in 2017.

Do you mean volume of food available, or variety of foods/flavors/cuisines?
We are fortunate in both respects, but they both come with grave compromises.

Both. I think I know what you're getting at, but go on.

EDIT: Let me add that I'm well aware that our fortune is often overlooked or taken for granted, yet I'm happy that American food culture is what it is. We would do well to understand and cultivate it, not exploit it.

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 7:56 pm 
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For volume, yea, it's great that we have enough quantity to feed ourselves. But we produce and store far more than we need, and waste a ton of resources doing so. And then of course not everyone has access to the same level of nutrition, despite having access to the same volume. The old concept of hunger has nearly been eradicated globally; now it's a matter of the quality of the food available. Assessing a population's food security on a kilocalorie basis is woefully misrepresenting the health of that population (consider skyrocketing rates of diabetes and heart disease in China).

For variety, the problem we see often is the fetishization of novel ingredients at the cost of native producers' well-being. Quinoa, for example, is a complete protein and has been a staple crop in places like Bolivia and Peru; and now they can't even afford to eat it, as the US demand has driven the price too high. A different example would be that of palm oil, which is found in everything from Oreos to peanut butter. It's the primary export of Myanmar, which is basically a banana republic for this crop. Massive slash-and-burn agriculture in their country, with little economic development beyond their main export, because we like our peanut butter to be creamy the moment you open it, rather than having to swirl in the natural peanut oil.

I could go on. I love quantity and variety of food, but it seems for every exciting new dish comes an economic loser on the other side of the planet.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 8:02 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
For volume, yea, it's great that we have enough quantity to feed ourselves. But we produce and store far more than we need, and waste a ton of resources doing so. And then of course not everyone has access to the same level of nutrition, despite having access to the same volume. The old concept of hunger has nearly been eradicated globally; now it's a matter of the quality of the food available. Assessing a population's food security on a kilocalorie basis is woefully misrepresenting the health of that population (consider skyrocketing rates of diabetes and heart disease in China).

For variety, the problem we see often is the fetishization of novel ingredients at the cost of native producers' well-being. Quinoa, for example, is a complete protein and has been a staple crop in places like Bolivia and Peru; and now they can't even afford to eat it, as the US demand has driven the price too high. A different example would be that of palm oil, which is found in everything from Oreos to peanut butter. It's the primary export of Myanmar, which is basically a banana republic for this crop. Massive slash-and-burn agriculture in their country, with little economic development beyond their main export, because we like our peanut butter to be creamy the moment you open it, rather than having to swirl in the natural peanut oil.

I could go on. I love quantity and variety of food, but it seems for every exciting new dish comes an economic loser on the other side of the planet.

So, is there an American way that we can have our cake and eat it responsibly too? One alternative I can think of is the idea of "farm-to-table foreign." For example, a Thai restaurant around here serves authentic recipes using crops and bycatch from a local farmer and fishmonger. Turns out a lot of rare and "foreign" greens that are used in Northen Thai dishes grow well in the Texas coastal plains, and there's some really good "dirt fish" in the gulf that restaurants can play around with without over-fishing. Obviously there's a lot of drawback and limitations to sourcing global ingredients locally, but it's a fun idea to explore.

EDIT: Deeper look at what I'm getting at.
http://treadsack.com/choam/water-spinach/

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Last edited by washing machine on Mon January 30, 2017 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 8:14 pm 
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washing machine wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
For volume, yea, it's great that we have enough quantity to feed ourselves. But we produce and store far more than we need, and waste a ton of resources doing so. And then of course not everyone has access to the same level of nutrition, despite having access to the same volume. The old concept of hunger has nearly been eradicated globally; now it's a matter of the quality of the food available. Assessing a population's food security on a kilocalorie basis is woefully misrepresenting the health of that population (consider skyrocketing rates of diabetes and heart disease in China).

For variety, the problem we see often is the fetishization of novel ingredients at the cost of native producers' well-being. Quinoa, for example, is a complete protein and has been a staple crop in places like Bolivia and Peru; and now they can't even afford to eat it, as the US demand has driven the price too high. A different example would be that of palm oil, which is found in everything from Oreos to peanut butter. It's the primary export of Myanmar, which is basically a banana republic for this crop. Massive slash-and-burn agriculture in their country, with little economic development beyond their main export, because we like our peanut butter to be creamy the moment you open it, rather than having to swirl in the natural peanut oil.

I could go on. I love quantity and variety of food, but it seems for every exciting new dish comes an economic loser on the other side of the planet.

So, is there an American way that we can have our cake and eat it responsibly too? One alternative I can think of is the idea of "farm-to-table foreign." For example, a Thai restaurant around here serves authentic recipes using crops and bycatch from a local farmer and fishmonger. Turns out a lot of rare and "foreign" greens that are used in Northen Thai dishes grow well in the Texas coastal plains. Obviously there's a lot of drawback and limitations to sourcing global ingredients locally, but it's a fun idea to explore.


This is a massively complicated concept (I did my whole thesis on food policy, using conventional protein production vs. multi-trophic aquaculture as the backdrop). There's no magic bullet -- the agricultural and economic restraints are different for every product.

As a consumer and food business owner, I run a checklist on every product I buy:

Does it taste good? Will it help me prepare a tasty and nutritious meal?
Is it ethically sourced? Did the planet, the animals, and/or the laborers suffer an undue amount so I could serve this food?

The only obvious issue I see in the Thailand-via-Texas example is that the established producers of those products now have a decrease in demand. Growing locally is great, and serving by-catch fishes can be a huge win/win when those programs are implemented properly.

I think the USDA and similar state agencies would be wise to invest heavily in nutritionally-rich value-added products. The USDA has a mean hard-on for corn, soy, and dairy, and subsidizes those crops extensively. Most other crops are produced with a handful of problems attached and sold at a cheap cost, or they are produced with very great care and are very expensive. There's not a ton of middle ground: Big ag producers get on the USDA loan treadmill and are indebted for their new tractor for the next 20 years, or they are small producers making local honey or whatever, and charging a premium. There's not a lot of success to be had as a mid-sized food producer these days, and that's where the Gov't should be looking to inject some much-needed support.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 8:27 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
washing machine wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
For volume, yea, it's great that we have enough quantity to feed ourselves. But we produce and store far more than we need, and waste a ton of resources doing so. And then of course not everyone has access to the same level of nutrition, despite having access to the same volume. The old concept of hunger has nearly been eradicated globally; now it's a matter of the quality of the food available. Assessing a population's food security on a kilocalorie basis is woefully misrepresenting the health of that population (consider skyrocketing rates of diabetes and heart disease in China).

For variety, the problem we see often is the fetishization of novel ingredients at the cost of native producers' well-being. Quinoa, for example, is a complete protein and has been a staple crop in places like Bolivia and Peru; and now they can't even afford to eat it, as the US demand has driven the price too high. A different example would be that of palm oil, which is found in everything from Oreos to peanut butter. It's the primary export of Myanmar, which is basically a banana republic for this crop. Massive slash-and-burn agriculture in their country, with little economic development beyond their main export, because we like our peanut butter to be creamy the moment you open it, rather than having to swirl in the natural peanut oil.

I could go on. I love quantity and variety of food, but it seems for every exciting new dish comes an economic loser on the other side of the planet.

So, is there an American way that we can have our cake and eat it responsibly too? One alternative I can think of is the idea of "farm-to-table foreign." For example, a Thai restaurant around here serves authentic recipes using crops and bycatch from a local farmer and fishmonger. Turns out a lot of rare and "foreign" greens that are used in Northen Thai dishes grow well in the Texas coastal plains. Obviously there's a lot of drawback and limitations to sourcing global ingredients locally, but it's a fun idea to explore.


This is a massively complicated concept (I did my whole thesis on food policy, using conventional protein production vs. multi-trophic aquaculture as the backdrop). There's no magic bullet -- the agricultural and economic restraints are different for every product.

As a consumer and food business owner, I run a checklist on every product I buy:

Does it taste good? Will it help me prepare a tasty and nutritious meal?
Is it ethically sourced? Did the planet, the animals, and/or the laborers suffer an undue amount so I could serve this food?

The only obvious issue I see in the Thailand-via-Texas example is that the established producers of those products now have a decrease in demand. Growing locally is great, and serving by-catch fishes can be a huge win/win when those programs are implemented properly.

I think the USDA and similar state agencies would be wise to invest heavily in nutritionally-rich value-added products. The USDA has a mean hard-on for corn, soy, and dairy, and subsidizes those crops extensively. Most other crops are produced with a handful of problems attached and sold at a cheap cost, or they are produced with very great care and are very expensive. There's not a ton of middle ground: Big ag producers get on the USDA loan treadmill and are indebted for their new tractor for the next 20 years, or they are small producers making local honey or whatever, and charging a premium. There's not a lot of success to be had as a mid-sized food producer these days, and that's where the Gov't should be looking to inject some much-needed support.

I had this link posted above, but it makes more sense as a supplement to your last post. Do you foresee much progress being made in this regard in the coming years? Has progress been made since you wrote your thesis? What is the average consumer's obligation to an area's food culture if we want to both eat diversely and ethically?

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Last edited by washing machine on Mon January 30, 2017 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Sorry for the quote pyramid, by the way. Feel free to rip it up and start again at any time.

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Mon January 30, 2017 8:38 pm 
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I'll read your linked article this afternoon, I have to head out. But I will answer one question real quick:

washing machine wrote:
What is the average consumer's obligation to an area's food culture if we want to both eat diversely and ethically?


In my mind, virtually none. I read the fine print on a product because I'm passionate about it. But people should be able to go about their lives and enjoy a meal without consuming carcinogens, or supporting an entity that abuses the planet or its employees. That should be a basic human right, and unfortunately we're so far from being there that I doubt it will ever happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 12:16 am 
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Ok, read the article. It's a good one -- one of the more unique stories of its ilk I've seen within the US. It's a very specific product with a very specific market, but the themes are the same: lack of regulation, monopoly of pricing, fundamental challenges in storage and shelf-life of product, people trying to capitalize, people getting screwed.

I don't think it has quite the same problems as the quinoa or palm oil situations I mentioned earlier; it has its own unique challenges. (As an aside, I find it interesting how often conscious consumers will ask about the sourcing of their ingredients, but not if the cuisine is ethnic. Here, "authentic" seems to be the driving factor in assessment of the food's quality).

Foods come in and out of style. Culturally, we pass recipes and customs all around the world, and the ingredients follow. There's more than enough food to feed everyone on the planet, but the rain doesn't always fall where you need it, you know? So we're inextricably linked into these distribution and storage systems.

There are some interesting developments in the trucking industry that I wish were getting more traction. Ditto beef production: even grass-fed cattle burp enough methane to wreak havoc on our planet. Imagine if we could genetically modify a grass that didn't do that? I'm all for GMOs as long as the science is sound and and everything is transparent.

Relative to the rest of the world, the US has pretty good environmental laws around agriculture, with some great big glaring exceptions. Of course they can be way better. The use of glyphosate is a big one, and it's great that's not being used here. It would be way cooler if they were growing the water spinach in a circulating system, using the waste of other products to fuel their growth. But agricultural tech is hugely expensive, especially new tech like recirculating aquaculture or hydroponics. And they are difficult to regulate.

The labor situations of your article are relatively ok too. Nothing compared to the Immokalee Workers in Florida. In light of that, this doesn't seem too bad. But it's not like they have a broad coalition to propagate the market potential for their product, you know? A lot of environmental and agricultural laws get pushed by the Sunshine State Citrus Growers, for example. So I suspect this particular group will have their weird subculture until either a similar product replaces it, or a larger company comes in and buys or directly compete with their operation.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 2:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 2:15 am 
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huh?


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 3:23 am 
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I've been enjoying reading this. Would a post on taco truck culture fit in this thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 4:16 am 
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Yes


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 4:26 am 
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Please, do it.

(Speaking of taco trucks, there was an impressive voter registration campaign that happened at local taco trucks around here last fall. Nate, I'd imagine that happened in Austin too?)

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 4:28 am 
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Oh, Trag. I'm chewing a lot on your post. Nothing really to add to it at the moment, but I appreciate all the thought you put into it. This is a good conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 1:59 pm 
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washing machine wrote:
Oh, Trag. I'm chewing a lot on your post. Nothing really to add to it at the moment, but I appreciate all the thought you put into it. This is a good conversation.

It is a lot to digest.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Trag, you have quite the appetite for food stats. I have some raw data on sushi consumption you may find compelling.


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 Post subject: Re: Immigrant Song - A Global Food Thread
PostPosted: Tue January 31, 2017 2:07 pm 
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I also have the skinny on the last five seasons of potato crop yield in Idaho. Eye opening stuff.


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