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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon August 14, 2017 11:40 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I mean, we had conversations about other foods, and I'm trying to understand here. Figs popped into my head today and I was just curious. Argo drops this thread and wants us to learn with him, but I guess my question was too... dickish? I'll just hang up and listen from now on.

I'm on your side on that one. He was being too mean to you!

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon August 14, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Oh and I wish you the best in your endeavor Asher. I wish I had the will to make a big change like that

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon August 14, 2017 11:48 pm 
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I just sent this as a PM to rudd, but OK fine it can be in the public:
I'm sorry I was mean about your question[, rudd]. malice talking about horses building roads and asking me if I was going to stop using roads just had me in the wrong headspace. And then the article you posted was about how wasps go into figs or whatever to lay eggs and then die there, which seems like a natural process. I'm not sure why you thought I would have a problem with that. It just seemed silly to me, especially after malice's thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:11 am 
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Do you guys think that before modern culture, when humans were hunter-gatherers and only ate what they hunted, was morally wrong? If humanity was not domesticating livestock, would people have problems with it morally? Just curious as to what others think. Not Argo though, I already know what you think, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:12 am 
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I'd love to know what you think I think. Especially since I've posted about it in this thread before.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:13 am 
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The Argonaut wrote:
I'd love to know what you think I think. Especially since I've posted about it in this thread before.

That's why I know

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:16 am 
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And sorry my honey inquiries upset you and the fragile state of this thread. I've always been genuinely curious, so I thought this would be a good thread to discuss it. And since you are on the front lines of this, I figured you might have a curiosity about it or at least some knowledge. Boy howdy.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:17 am 
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My own experience was that domesticating livestock in humane conditions only gave me more respect for the act of eating the meat. But it never made me question if it was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:18 am 
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This used to be my favorite thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:19 am 
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The Argonaut wrote:
This used to be my favorite thread.

No worries, pal. This is your thread. I'll keep out. I can feed my curiosity about this stuff elsewhere. Enjoy it again!

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:23 am 
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I'm sorry, rudd.
What is it about you that makes me want to apologize to you all the time? Oh! I know! Your thin skin!

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 15, 2017 12:46 am 
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what is considered the primary source for 'vegan law'?

certain folks attach certain meaning to the word - but would be helpful to know what the core definition really is

what is the 'vegan bible'?

i want to know

and then i can make better comments/rank things

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 12:23 am 
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Hypothetical question for Argo:

You're traveling, and you're hungry. Your two options are:

1. A vegan meal that was growth with pesticides and herbicides, and traveled thousands of miles to get to your plate. There's a good chance that some of the produce was grown in poor labor conditions.

2. Local sustainably raised meat, your favorite kind. It traveled just a couple miles, was raised on Certified Humane conditions, and is the product of a family-owned biodynamic farm.

Which do you eat? And for the record, while this is an extreme scenario, it's fairly emblematic of the choices we face here in MT every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 12:54 am 
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I'd choose the first option.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 1:46 am 
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throw 'im in the slammer

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 1:48 am 
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The Argonaut wrote:
I'd choose the first option.

This thread might be your biggest mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 1:57 am 
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At this point, the idea of eating meat is very unappealing to me.
And on another level, the problem of pesticides and poor agricultural labor conditions are solvable problems. Feeding humanity with red meat is an unsolvable problem, in terms of sustainability and impact on human health.
The second option is probably the better choice for one single meal, but it's not the one I'd make.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 1:59 am 
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The Argonaut wrote:
This thread is getting out of hand. Instead of you guys asking me how I feel about 19th century horses or the natural instincts of wasps, let me turn it around and raise some issues to you guys. To my mind, this is much more important.
Do humans create tragic lives for intelligent mammals, like cows and pigs? Why do we do that? To what end? Can this be stopped and is it worth trying to stop?
You don't have to post anything. I'm just trying to illustrate how I'm dealing with big questions here about unnecessary cruelty and suffering, as well as human and ecological health, and you're asking me frivolous, silly questions.


Why have you stopped eating chicken then? And since when is a cow an intelligent animal?


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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 2:02 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Wed August 16, 2017 2:02 am 
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what if humans started eating other humans

it would get their numbers down

simultaneously we could focus on re-breeding bison in north america

once a sufficient balance has been reached, we could go back to eating bison all day

then we wouldn't have to take B12 supplements like some science experiment

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