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 Post subject: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:17 pm 
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This is the direction I'm heading, even if I'm not there yet nor may I ever even get there. I was 95% vegetarian for the first eight months of 2016. Since then, I've been almost perfectly strictly vegetarian (there was one crab cake and three dishes with either turkey or chicken gravy in there). Now I'm deciding to get off dairy entirely, which I need to do. I react poorly to dairy, especially since my intake has been pretty limited over the last year and a half. It's not gastrointestinal, it's other stuff.
I don't anticipate being religious about it, because I'm not a very good person. I'm sure I'll be eating the occasional egg and eating the occasional cupcake with creamy frosting. But I'll feel guilty about it whenever I do it (hopefully not something that I will do often).
There are a lot of reasons to do it. It's really not that hard. It's a healthy diet. If I think about the morality of killing or using animals for food, I just can't find a way to justify that when I get right down to it.
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is going to be. I'm not going to post every time I eat a spinach leaf. Maybe you guys can just yell at me about protein and B12?

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:28 pm 
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make sure you get enough calcium too

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Vegans say that milk is actually a poor source of calcium because it's so acidic that it actually leaches calcium from your bones to bring it to your core, which is dealing with all that acid. Or something. That's why a lot of people get osteoporosis, even though we drink a lot of milk. Leafy greens may actually be a better source of calcium because our bodies can actually deal with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:35 pm 
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The Argonaut wrote:
Vegans say that milk is actually a poor source of calcium because it's so acidic that it actually leaches calcium from your bones to bring it to your core, which is dealing with all that acid. Or something. That's why a lot of people get osteoporosis, even though we drink a lot of milk. Leafy greens may actually be a better source of calcium because our bodies can actually deal with it.

Ive never researched it but my dad has been drinking at least one glass of milk a day for most of his life and his doctors tell him he has the bone density of a 30 y/o. Broccoli is a good source of calcium too.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:37 pm 
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This may be a controversial opinion, but I consider broccoli to be a leafy green.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:40 pm 
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The Argonaut wrote:
This may be a controversial opinion, but I consider broccoli to be a leafy green.

now you're just being difficult

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:46 pm 
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why vegan instead of vegetarian now? Is all use of all animals bad? Not that there's anything wrong with that honestly, but i mean, humanity hasn't been any different than other species in eating other animal meat etc, what about riding horses? Or having pet dogs? That's use too, and we've bred them to suit our needs in the same way we've bred cows etc...

Just curious

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:48 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:54 pm 
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Don't do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 10:56 pm 
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wat?

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 11:14 pm 
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malice wrote:
why vegan instead of vegetarian now? Is all use of all animals bad? Not that there's anything wrong with that honestly, but i mean, humanity hasn't been any different than other species in eating other animal meat etc, what about riding horses? Or having pet dogs? That's use too, and we've bred them to suit our needs in the same way we've bred cows etc...

Just curious


Animal agriculture is just up and down and all around a disgusting industry. Why do dairy cows produce milk? To feed their calves. So cows are forcibly impregnated (read: raped), then the calves are taken from their mothers. Males are sent to be raised for meat, sometimes for veal which is a terrifying process. And the dairy cows themselves only have a few good years of milk in them, so they're eventually sent to slaughter as well.
And it's not fair to go shopping and think about the nice, kind, we-love-animals dairy farm that exists mostly on television or in our imagination or some vague memory from our childhood. 99% of meat and dairy is produced at some industrial factory "farm".
Also, I don't think dairy is even healthy. It's for calves. We're not calves.
Not to mention how devastating animal agriculture, especially the beef and dairy industries, are to the environment. Deforestation, methane emissions, carbon pollution, water wastage, you name it it hits every area. So much less efficient than a plant based diet. If you want to combat climate change, going vegan is one of the most effective things you can do--especially because methane dissipates way faster than CO2 but is also a major contributor to global warming. Plus all the antibiotics they pump into these animals preemptively is the reason we have anti-biotic resistant superbugs and the effective life of every new strain of antibiotic is lower and lower all the time. There's no upside.

The difference between humans eating meat and animals eating meat is that humans DON'T HAVE TO. Other animals instinctually eat meat, and their bodies can only get the nutrients it needs from meat. That is not the case for humans. We choose to eat meat, and that may have been influential in helping early hominids get enough calories to allow their brain to grow. But in this modern world, especially in North America, there is not a scarcity of calories. We can get all the nutrients we need from plants.

Now, dogs. Dogs and people have had a symbiotic relationship for all of human civilization. I dont' think that we would have the civilization that we have without dogs. We don't torture dogs to get what we want out of them. We do spay or neuter dogs, which I guess messes my theory up a little, but I think that's an unavoidable concession that has to be made in an overpopulated world. That's done for the greater good. Milk is not for the greater good. It's unnecessary and overall a majorly net negative. Overall, I think dogs are more like partners than our slaves or whatever.

I will have to think long and hard about whether I want to go to the track and play the ponies, though (which I usually do one or two or five times a year and really enjoy). I shouldn't. Those horses are treated terribly, whipped, and sometimes killed right there on the track when they fall over. It's pretty fucked.
And then you ask what about people riding horses? I have no idea. I kind of think people who love to ride horses are dumb and sexually repressed/deviant. So I'm already judging those people for too many other things to think about how the horse feels about his life..

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 11:38 pm 
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so... you don't already hate me for having two cats, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 11:40 pm 
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malice wrote:
so... you don't already hate me for having two cats, right?

Cats are cool, man. Not really my thing, but people like them. There are probably too many domesticated cats out there killing wild birds, but I only know that because of Jonathan Franzen. Cats need to eat meat to live, so feed your cats some meat, malice.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Mon July 31, 2017 11:54 pm 
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The Argonaut wrote:
malice wrote:
so... you don't already hate me for having two cats, right?

Cats are cool, man. Not really my thing, but people like them. There are probably too many domesticated cats out there killing wild birds, but I only know that because of Jonathan Franzen. Cats need to eat meat to live, so feed your cats some meat, malice.

I do, cats are hyper carnivores so have to eat meat. They mostly only eat tuna, which kurt cobain said was ok because fish don't have any feelings.
also, my cats are indoors only, but they kill mice when they can.

On a more serious note, i don't think any of what you wrote about is incorrect or overreacting, but i do love steak so
Also, as ive gotten older, i do have more... awareness? of what im eating and that the agricultural industry is fucked in the head for it's practices, but i was not raised with that level of awareness about how food gets on the table, what was cooked for us is what we ate, and we were supposed to be adequately thankful for it, so i guess it's a bit different for me at this stage of my life. I doubt I'd ever have the staying power to actively avoid any and all use of animal products.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:00 am 
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Animals are exploited for foods and textiles, black and brown humans are exploited for vegan-friendly foods like quinoa and tomatoes. The food industry is super fucked. Also it is wrong that "humans don't need meat"; or, more accurately, it's not correct in all cases. Some people would die on a vegan diet. Not me, though, I just like meat a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:13 am 
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I think way more people are killed by their meat eating diets (heart disease, cancer, everything that kills us) than there are people who would die if they don't eat meat. A plant based diet with food from a variety of sources can provide more than enough protein and micronutrients to support anyone in any lifestyle. People whose doctors tell them that they'll die if they don't quit their vegan diets are most often people who are trying to live off of bread and pasta instead of bread, pasta, beans, nuts, seeds, veggies, and fruits.
And yeah, the food industry is super fucked in a lot of ways. But that isn't an excuse for me to not try to do my best as I can. It's a process. I know meat and dairy are morally unjustifiable and I'm cutting them. I've cut out palm oils since trag posted that article about how harmful they are and I looked into it. The better question is what should I do next. Not: well the other option is also not easy and perfect so fuck it.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:21 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:22 am 
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That's fine, I'm just addressing this claim
The Argonaut wrote:
The difference between humans eating meat and animals eating meat is that humans DON'T HAVE TO.

It's not correct for everybody. Not everybody is physically able to live on a vegan diet, or economically able to sustain it. That's not really up for debate

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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:27 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Being Vegan
PostPosted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:30 am 
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You can eat Oreos

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