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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:27 pm 
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ill start season 2, but if its similar to season 1...yeah, im gone.

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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Legacy of Love
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VinylGuy wrote:
ill start season 2, but if its similar to season 1...yeah, im gone.

:(


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Mon June 08, 2020 6:11 pm 
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The Master
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Great ep last night. Finale next week. $10 says Issa is pregnant.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Mon June 08, 2020 6:15 pm 
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I've been POOSSTTIiiEEnngeeaahh
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Nah. Lawrence decides to move to SF and it is a conundrum. I honestly don't care what happens with Molly. Issa is better off meeting a new best friend

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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Mon June 08, 2020 6:18 pm 
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The Master
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The Argonaut wrote:
Nah. Lawrence decides to move to SF and it is a conundrum. I honestly don't care what happens with Molly. Issa is better off meeting a new best friend

Agreed he'll have a job offer, but she'll be preggers and they'll have some thinking to do.

I like how they've fleshed Molly out this season beyond just Issa's BFF. Now way have they done all that just to write her off the show though. She'll turn around at some point, prolly not until next season when Issa is stressed by impending motherhood.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Mon June 15, 2020 3:24 am 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Great ep last night. Finale next week. $10 says Issa is pregnant.

Spoiler: show
ok I was off but only just


Great, great season. I often gripe about a lack of character development in shows, but this season was nothing but.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Thu January 13, 2022 3:18 pm 
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Legacy of Love
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Finally started the final season last night. First two episodes were strong. Man, I had really missed being in this world.

Excited for more tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Thu January 13, 2022 3:26 pm 
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The Master
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Hmm…I’m like four episodes into this last season and I’m not loving it. I think the time jumps are hurting it somewhat. Things feel a bit rushed.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Fri January 14, 2022 2:34 pm 
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Episode three was a gut punch. I loved it as a stand alone episode, and I get why we need to see it, but it was hard being away from the rest of the cast the entire time.

Episode four was excellent.

I like that I'm watching this in small chunks (one or two at a time) rather than fully binging. It's helping the experience for me.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Sun February 13, 2022 2:45 pm 
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We dove back in last night with episodes 4-6. I agree viewing a few at a time helps, feels like we’re back on track.

I have thoughts on everything but I’ll wait until we’re done.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Tue February 15, 2022 4:48 pm 
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For epilogue, and maybe 1-2 others: Some thoughts on the final season, the finale, and the overall arc of the show:

Spoiler: show
I appreciate they had a tall order in trying to bring closure to Issa and Molly's stories in season five, and I imagine covid restrictions created logistical challenges. I generally think they did a great job, with some small missteps, and one glaring error (Issa'a return to Lawrence).

The time jumps in the beginning of the season felt a little rushed and awkward, but once we got past that, things started to feel good. I thought the early bottle episode with Lawrence and Condola was excellent; they charted what felt like an authentic course for those two with really tight writing and editing, strong performances, etc... I'm not sure we needed to see any more of them throughout the rest of the season, and I'm kind of bummed we circled back to them for so much of the final episode.

Everything from that episode onward was awesome, until the finale. I really enjoyed seeing Issa's arc with BLOCC and Crenshawn. I thought the later episode where she goes to confront Crenshawn, and he called her out on not supporting his vision, was great. But her subsequent fantasies about what her successful life might look like were a little clumsy, because they hint at her having some conflicts around essentially letting this white man's bottled water company co-opt Black culture, but they never explicitly say it. It was really noticeable when Kelly said "I'm done helping rich white men make more money for other rich white men."

This whole aspect of the season felt underdeveloped, and like it was maybe a commentary on Issa Rae's relationship with HBO. But I'm not sure what the takeaway was here: That Issa Dee was ultimately fine working with the water co because it allowed her to lift up her community? Or that she was conflicted about it, but was committed to protecting her artists' visions going forward, after her early mistake with Crenshawn? I just wish it had been explored a bit deeper, because as a cultural outsider, I think there was stuff worth exploring here.

Molly's arc was terrific, and hit close to home because we're starting to dealing with similar questions of elder care/end-of-life planning in my house. It was great to see her have some warmth with her dad again, and her mom's stroke and its impact on Molly made for a really compelling narrative. Her ultimate connection with Taurean felt super authentic: After all her relationship troubles and professional success, it makes perfect sense that the right man for her would be a guy from her office who says what he means and doesn't play games. I was honestly surprised at how hard this overall narrative hit; it was done really well, and Yvonne Orji is obviously a star.

It was great fun to see Issa's connection with Nathan develop into a meaningful relationship, and my wife and I were really routing for them -- we are big fans of Nathan! And we loved how the show treated his bipolar as one facet of his layered character, rather than a big character trope...

But boy, things fell apart in the last episode. I could totally buy Nathan saying "This drama is toxic for me, I need to take a step back" if there had been any prior warning...but everything was hunky dory until Lawrence tried to pick a fight with him at Tiff's going away party; Nathan even mentioned that he had started a mens' group! It felt like a plot device more than something that would've actually happened; I can't imagine one little dustup -- especially one that Issa herself said wasn't something to worry about -- would compel him to retreat so quickly.

And Lawrence. Ugh. He was a great character when the show started, but over time became a plot device himself, something for Issa to measure her success and happiness against. As he became more one dimensional as the series went on, it was hard not to read him as an egotistical asshole, and his behavior at Tiff's party really drove that home.

And the one criticism I've seen repeatedly is that the show's glaring error was having Issa place so much of her self worth into romantic relationships. With the dust settled, I've got to agree. I would've been fine with Nathan leaving and the show ending with Issa single, or casually dating, making it clear that her professional success and financial stability stemmed from her own growth in self-confidence and self-awareness. Her return to Lawrence didn't just feel inauthentic, it felt unearned. Why would she ever? It's been made clear that he brings out the worst in her (and yes, sometimes the best). It didn't make a lick of sense to me, and it felt like the last episode blew threw 2+ years of living just so they could get to a conclusion that saw Issa reunite with Lawrence. I would've preferred something smaller that underscored Issa's independence from romantic entanglements as she found stability in her life.

Overall, this is one of my favorite shows I've ever seen, and probably the best TV depiction of the Black experience. It's not that I was surprised to see Black people having financial success, celebrating their culture independent of white commercialism, forming meaningful same-sex friendships, etc. But it was good to see it, to shake me out of my MT stupor, to remind me of one of the many vibrant subcultures out there that I rarely get to experience first-hand these days. Everyone in the show felt so real, and I felt simultaneously like a friend and a voyeur of the characters, like they were offering me a glimpse into a lived-in world. I often felt "uncool" while watching -- white, pasty, uncultured -- but I never felt unwelcome. Oh and bonus points for having multiple bald men depicted as sex symbols. :heartbeat:


Last edited by tragabigzanda on Tue February 15, 2022 4:55 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Tue February 15, 2022 4:50 pm 
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I still haven't watched the last season. I suppose I will, though I feel no rush

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 Post subject: Re: TV: HBO: Insecure
PostPosted: Fri March 11, 2022 8:44 pm 
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Yeah, sorry trag But I can't really disagree with anything you said in your write up about the show and the final season. That was pretty much where I landed as well.

Spoiler: show
Did you watch any of the post-episode Wine Downs? I'm convinced Issa Rae didn't want Issa and Lawrence to get back together. It's pretty clear she was pressured into that and it shows.

The one thing strong take away for me with the finale and the getting back together stuff was how wonderful the final moment in the mirror was. Issa communicates so much in that quiet moment. It's clear that she has her own doubts about Lawrence. It's clear that she's still "insecure." But it's also clear that for the first time she's secure in being insecure. And that's the real arc.

That was my immediate take away from that moment and they do kind of address some of that in the post-show Wine Down. So, I'm not totally nuts. That was the intention there and I think it really came through.

But, yeah, this show was fantastic overall, despite some missteps along the way.


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