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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Fri June 28, 2013 2:56 pm 
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turned2black wrote:
turned2black wrote:
broken iris wrote:
Gonna watch this one tonight.

This didn't happen. Two sick kids meant I was wading through a river of shit and puke instead.



I hope this all blows over before you leave for the great Door County, Wisconsin.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Fri June 28, 2013 3:00 pm 
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So to first get this out of the way, comparisons to Malick's "Tree of Life" are somewhat valid in a high level sense for some of the shots in the film and that both constitute a series windows into the plot, allowing for your own interpretation vs. a clear manipulation of the viewer to what the director wants you to think or feel during a scene. Both also take the viewer through a cycle of shared experiences amongst the characters, but for very different purposes. I have only seen the ToL once and UC once, so I don't feel comfortable doing a rigorous comparison, but I totally get why ToL is brought up alongside UC.

Now for what I actually thought:

The film is a work of art. Like all art, it's open to interpretation and not everyone is gonna like it. I didn't love it right off the bat, but goddammit if I have been able to think about anything else for the last 14 hours or so and that has made me fall in love with it.

This is what I believe the plot is after one viewing, 6 hours of sleep, and a venti Green tea:
Spoiler: show
Act I:

If I understand this right, the kidnapper gets a worm from a blue orchid that grows near the Sampler's farm. That orchid/worm combination allows the kidnapper to suspend the consciousness of the victim (though the worm itself was removed right after Kris is infected, suggesting it's eggs are in her), allowing him complete control over them and the destruction of their life, I assume this is a metaphor for drug addiction. The Sampler uses the heavy bass sounds to draw worms up from the ground by simulating thunder, which draws Kris to him. He then extracts the worm via a painful process (I couldn't tell if he realizes what the kidnapper has done or even why these people are infected, or if it was one worm or many), a drug addicts withdrawal, and inserts it into the pig as pigs are a species whose biological facilities are somewhat compatible with humans. The Sampler then returns her to her vehicle and since the worm is now removed she regains he mental facilities (her soul is now back in exclusive charge of her mind?) without knowledge of what has happened, so some level of infect remains. The addict will always be an addict. The Sampler tags the pig and returns to his farm where he has many such pigs, so there are lots of victims out there.

Act II:

As Kris' consciousness fought with the worm infection's effect, they are now connected somehow. The worm/orchid combo took a piece of it into the worm when it suppressed her awareness. The transfer of the worm to pig has now merged all three of them, even though the direct host/parasite relationship between Kris and the worm is broken. The Sampler, somehow, has the ability to 'sample' this three-way connection for all the pigs on his farm and view snippets of the victim's lives which he records are music. Is he God? I don't think so. He is more like a psychologist counseling the drug addict, recording their lives in a doctor's journal and selling those notes as musical CDs in place of books. He is what I’ll call ‘the First’.
The pig that holds part of Kris meets another pig (Jeff’s pig) at the Sampler’s farm that it falls in piggy-love with. This causes Kris and Jeff to meet, and sensing a connection between themselves, they begin a relationship. They have both been victims of the kidnapper(s). They were both married. To each other? I am not sure, but I think so. The experience of the pigs is being fed back to the victims. Their mundane piggy lives in the pen are taking a toll on Kris and Jeff, while the Sampler looks in.

Act III:

The Kris pig gets pregnant via the Jeff pig and thus Kris begins to feel the biological effects of the pregnancy. The share the same memories now since they are further infection-connected via the growing fetuses in the Kris pig. That’s why they both remember the same friend growing up. She is not pregnant and the doctor’s speech to her is the first big crack in wall hiding the truth. This has never happened before, perhaps no two victims have ever met before or no pre-existing couple has both been victims, and the result is that Kris is gaining some of the abilities that the Sampler has. She is able to begin to reach back towards him and the farm, like he reaches to her. The Sampler attempts to stop this, the resulting dilution, by killing the piglets. But it’s too late as Kris has done a ‘deep dive’ into herself and begins to piece it all together. Metaphorically though the gathering of the broken pieces of the pool and consciously though the book. She has found him and blames him for everything and ends up killing him. Pouring through his notes Kris and Jeff reach out to other victims and help them reassemble their lives. They begin to care for the pigs and bring them happiness thus bringing the pure-animal like love of life back into themselves. The scene of Kris holding the piglet is her experiencing motherhood through the pigs, as she lost that ability herself.


What does that all mean?

Spoiler: show
All living thing’s consciousness is essentially a parasite, an infection. And that infection can spread or be placed in competition with another parasite. This is similar to how scientists believe mitochondria integrated into cells.

Why did I call the Sampler, ‘the First’. Because it make sense from the story that he is first person to be infected with the competing parasite and he derives his power to connect with everyone else because a little bit of his consciousness has infected all the victims via the orchid/worm path.




What I am still working on:

Spoiler: show
Do the Sampler, orchid collectors, and kidnapper know each other?
Were Jeff and Kris already married?
What the fuck was up with kidnapper's helpers? Were they learning to become Samplers?
Is this a metaphor for the mental healthcare industry?
Why were there so many victims in the one room towards the beginning?

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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Fri June 28, 2013 7:22 pm 
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I've only seen it once, but I think I agree with most of what you're saying, broken iris. I didn't really get into any kind of drug metaphor or symbolism, but, I think you're basic understanding of the events match with mine. Again, I've only seen it once.

Spoiler: show
One thing: I wasn't sure if The Sampler was making sort of spoken word albums or if he was using their memories to make sound recordings of their past experiences. Both make sense to me. Maybe it's a combination? But if it's just spoken word, why is he recording so much sound?

Also, I think The Sampler always kills the piglets. That's how the cycle continues. I don't think this was the first time that he's done that.

It never crossed my mind that he was a victim once, which is sorta how he knows all this is happening; knows how to "call" others. That's an interesting thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sat June 29, 2013 6:07 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:

Spoiler: show
One thing: I wasn't sure if The Sampler was making sort of spoken word albums or if he was using their memories to make sound recordings of their past experiences. Both make sense to me. Maybe it's a combination? But if it's just spoken word, why is he recording so much sound?

Also, I think The Sampler always kills the piglets. That's how the cycle continues. I don't think this was the first time that he's done that.




Spoiler: show
1.) My thought was he did this to help maintain a strong connection. It's possible those albums are for other 'Samplers' out there.

2.) That makes sense, but he appeared to act surprised, if not upset about the piglets. Perhaps because of the effect their deaths would have on Kris, Jeff, and himself now that they are all connected.


Gonna be one of those threads...

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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sat June 29, 2013 6:18 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:

Spoiler: show
One thing: I wasn't sure if The Sampler was making sort of spoken word albums or if he was using their memories to make sound recordings of their past experiences. Both make sense to me. Maybe it's a combination? But if it's just spoken word, why is he recording so much sound?

Also, I think The Sampler always kills the piglets. That's how the cycle continues. I don't think this was the first time that he's done that.




Spoiler: show
1.) My thought was he did this to help maintain a strong connection. It's possible those albums are for other 'Samplers' out there.

2.) That makes sense, but he appeared to act surprised, if not upset about the piglets. Perhaps because of the effect their deaths would have on Kris, Jeff, and himself now that they are all connected.


Gonna be one of those threads...

Spoiler: show
I thought he was upset about the way Kris's pig and Jeff's pig were behaving. But again, like you, I've only seen it once. Clearly, that worm gets into the orchid someone. It's been happening for a while. So there has to be some way of perpetuating the cycle even if it's not usually the piglets.

Also, the more I think about the movie, the less I think any of the three "people" (orchid sales, thief, sampler) has any idea what the others are up to.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sat June 29, 2013 11:31 pm 
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There's an interview out there where Shane Carruth is pretty forthcoming in his explanations/intentions of the movie. I strongly encourage you NOT to seek it out (what a diabolical post this is).

I enjoy the notion of bringing your own baggage to work of art. Can you imagine if Arthur C. Clarke/Stanley Kubrick were around to explain 2001 to you? Is it such a big leap to suggest kinship between these two movies?

Anyway, I'd like to participate in the analysis here, but I feel it's been undermined by the interview I've read. Isn't that an interesting phenomenon? Is the artist's vision even the true vision, or is he also just an interpreter of his own intangible sensibilities?

Also, I'm drunk, so...there's that.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sun June 30, 2013 12:11 am 
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Harry Lime wrote:
turned2black wrote:
turned2black wrote:
broken iris wrote:
Gonna watch this one tonight.

This didn't happen. Two sick kids meant I was wading through a river of shit and puke instead.



I hope this all blows over before you leave for the great Door County, Wisconsin.

We're buying lakefront land there!


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sun June 30, 2013 8:53 am 
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eh I liked Primer better. This one feels more forced, and I liked the energy of Primer more. they are really two very different movies. it was good though.

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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sun June 30, 2013 1:51 pm 
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turned2black wrote:
Harry Lime wrote:
turned2black wrote:
turned2black wrote:
broken iris wrote:
Gonna watch this one tonight.

This didn't happen. Two sick kids meant I was wading through a river of shit and puke instead.



I hope this all blows over before you leave for the great Door County, Wisconsin.

We're buying lakefront land there!


That's like buying a piece of heaven right there. But you don't need me to tell you that. Good call, sir.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Mon July 01, 2013 1:53 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
broken iris wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:

Spoiler: show
One thing: I wasn't sure if The Sampler was making sort of spoken word albums or if he was using their memories to make sound recordings of their past experiences. Both make sense to me. Maybe it's a combination? But if it's just spoken word, why is he recording so much sound?

Also, I think The Sampler always kills the piglets. That's how the cycle continues. I don't think this was the first time that he's done that.




Spoiler: show
1.) My thought was he did this to help maintain a strong connection. It's possible those albums are for other 'Samplers' out there.

2.) That makes sense, but he appeared to act surprised, if not upset about the piglets. Perhaps because of the effect their deaths would have on Kris, Jeff, and himself now that they are all connected.


Gonna be one of those threads...

Spoiler: show
I thought he was upset about the way Kris's pig and Jeff's pig were behaving. But again, like you, I've only seen it once. Clearly, that worm gets into the orchid someone. It's been happening for a while. So there has to be some way of perpetuating the cycle even if it's not usually the piglets.

Also, the more I think about the movie, the less I think any of the three "people" (orchid sales, thief, sampler) has any idea what the others are up to.



Spoiler: show
Isn't the worm just a carrier of the parasite? But yeah, you are right that there does need to be a somewhat frequent process of pig->orchid transmission.



And as for this versus Primer, I think they are two different styles of storytelling. Primer is more akin to The Prestige in that it's trick is revealed at the end and on subsequent viewings the brilliance of how the director crafted it further reveals itself, but still the explanation is clearly presented. The absence of explanation in UC makes it more challenging to the audience than Primer was because it's not a "look what I was doing the whole time" type conclusion. I think this is why I didn't love it immediately after viewing it, because I keep feeling like something was clearly revealed to me but I was too dumb to pick it up, when really it was a reflection of my conditioning to expect the solution to be obvious in the film ala eXistenZ or Inception. With UC, Carruth was literally giving his audience a complement, and a gift, by not handing them the answer and letting them puzzle it out for themselves.

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Last edited by broken iris on Mon July 01, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Mon July 01, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Okay, you got me to add this to my Netflix que.
I liked Primer but I don't think I liked it as much as most of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Mon July 01, 2013 5:17 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
With UC, Carruth was literally giving his audience a complement, and a gift, by not handing them the answer and letting them puzzle it out for themselves.

Exactly. Which is why I think it's the best film of the year. So far.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Mon July 01, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Hearing comparisons to Tree of Life probably hurt it for me, because I love Tree of Life and this doesn't quite stack up to Malick's visual storytelling. Its probably not fair of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Tue July 02, 2013 12:24 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Hearing comparisons to Tree of Life probably hurt it for me, because I love Tree of Life and this doesn't quite stack up to Malick's visual storytelling. Its probably not fair of me.

I hadn't heard any of those comparisons until reading them in this very thread.

I love Tree of Life and I love Upstream Color. But I don't think I would compare them. Tree of Life never once entered my mind while watching Upstream Color.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Fri July 05, 2013 2:27 pm 
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i watched this in two parts over two nights, just to make it more disjointed.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sat July 06, 2013 3:48 am 
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I knew there was something that had a deep influence on this but I couldn't put my finger on it. Last night I figured it out:

Spoiler: show
Image


I'm midway through watching it again. There are a few things I don't like (wtf is up with how quiet the dialogue is, for example) but there's a lot of great stuff in this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Film: Upstream Color
PostPosted: Sat July 06, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Orpheus wrote:
There are a few things I don't like (wtf is up with how quiet the dialogue is, for example) but there's a lot of great stuff in this one.

Primer was the same way.


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