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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed August 30, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Spoiler: show
It was, apparently, "I'm in the (or a) sheriff station", yeah.

If this was the implication of Coop's request to make another copy/tulpa, which is how I took it, I agree with this:



Janey-E and Sonny Jim surely deserve more than that - but we'll see.

It was, in some respects, a weird episode for me. Thrilling, yes, but I'm kind of mourning the end of the Dougie/Coop character. I've enjoyed this series so much and have never felt impatient with Cooper waking up, I would've been fine had "the old Coop" never returned and we just floated around the world Lynch and Frost had created indefinitely.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed August 30, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Spoiler: show
It was, apparently, "I'm in the (or a) sheriff station", yeah.

If this was the implication of Coop's request to make another copy/tulpa, which is how I took it, I agree with this:



Janey-E and Sonny Jim surely deserve more than that - but we'll see.

It was, in some respects, a weird episode for me. Thrilling, yes, but I'm kind of mourning the end of the Dougie/Coop character. I've enjoyed this series so much and have never felt impatient with Cooper waking up, I would've been fine had "the old Coop" never returned and we just floated around the world Lynch and Frost had created indefinitely.

Spoiler: show
I totally understand what you're saying. I didn't NEED Dale Cooper to return either. I really loved Dougie/Coop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't literally jump up, cheer out load, and pump my fist when Cooper returned. It was so thrilling and so well executed. It was awesome.

Here's what I think about the "manufacturing." Okay, so we have two examples of manufactured people. The first is Dougie Jones. We assume Evil/Doppel-Cooper made him. And given what we saw in this episode, I think we can assume Doppel-Coop made him using as strand of his own hair.

The second manufactured person we've seen is Diane (Tulpa-Diane). We have less info about her. But I have a feeling she was also manufactured by Doppel-Coop. And he probably did so using a strand of real Diane's hair. This probably happened some time after he raped the Diane. With me so far?

Okay, so two manufactured people who behave in strikingly different ways. Dougie Jones is super weird, a liar, a cheat, kind of an oblivious dick who is awkward and sometimes acts unnaturally. The real world credits his behavior to an accident a few years back. We don't know if he has any memories before he was manufactured (does he know he was manufactured, does he remember Doppel-Coop and share his memories, etc). Tulpa-Diane, however, DOES have Diane's memories and emotions. And she's struggling to do what Dopple-Coop wants her to do and what she knows is right. She's fighting her own nature.

Okay, so why? Why are the two manufactured people so totally different? Why is one so connected to their "real" counterpart and the other seemingly not at all?

Here's my guess: I think it's who made them; from whom they actually originate. Since Tulpa-Diane is made from real Diane, she is more self-aware and active and conscious (for lack of a better word). She's made from a real person. Dougie Jones, however, was manufactured from a Doppelganger. He's sort of a copy of a copy (if you will). Or, if you prefer, Doppel-Coop is not a natural being. He's supernatural. Diane is natural.

My point in all of this is to say that I think the version of Dougie that will be manufactured from Dale Cooper's hair will be good and far more with it and connected to the real Dale Cooper. I think Janey-E and Sonny Jim are gonna be just fine when their new Dougie shows up.
He'll be better than he ever was before; far more like Dale Cooper than the Dougie that was manufactured by Doppel-Coop.

Phew!

Anyway... just my thoughts after watching the episode once.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed August 30, 2017 11:23 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Spoiler: show
It was, apparently, "I'm in the (or a) sheriff station", yeah.

If this was the implication of Coop's request to make another copy/tulpa, which is how I took it, I agree with this:



Janey-E and Sonny Jim surely deserve more than that - but we'll see.

It was, in some respects, a weird episode for me. Thrilling, yes, but I'm kind of mourning the end of the Dougie/Coop character. I've enjoyed this series so much and have never felt impatient with Cooper waking up, I would've been fine had "the old Coop" never returned and we just floated around the world Lynch and Frost had created indefinitely.

Spoiler: show
I totally understand what you're saying. I didn't NEED Dale Cooper to return either. I really loved Dougie/Coop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't literally jump up, cheer out load, and pump my fist when Cooper returned. It was so thrilling and so well executed. It was awesome.

Here's what I think about the "manufacturing." Okay, so we have two examples of manufactured people. The first is Dougie Jones. We assume Evil/Doppel-Cooper made him. And given what we saw in this episode, I think we can assume Doppel-Coop made him using as strand of his own hair.

The second manufactured person we've seen is Diane (Tulpa-Diane). We have less info about her. But I have a feeling she was also manufactured by Doppel-Coop. And he probably did so using a strand of real Diane's hair. This probably happened some time after he raped the Diane. With me so far?

Okay, so two manufactured people who behave in strikingly different ways. Dougie Jones is super weird, a liar, a cheat, kind of an oblivious dick who is awkward and sometimes acts unnaturally. The real world credits his behavior to an accident a few years back. We don't know if he has any memories before he was manufactured (does he know he was manufactured, does he remember Doppel-Coop and share his memories, etc). Tulpa-Diane, however, DOES have Diane's memories and emotions. And she's struggling to do what Dopple-Coop wants her to do and what she knows is right. She's fighting her own nature.

Okay, so why? Why are the two manufactured people so totally different? Why is one so connected to their "real" counterpart and the other seemingly not at all?

Here's my guess: I think it's who made them; from whom they actually originate. Since Tulpa-Diane is made from real Diane, she is more self-aware and active and conscious (for lack of a better word). She's made from a real person. Dougie Jones, however, was manufactured from a Doppelganger. He's sort of a copy of a copy (if you will). Or, if you prefer, Doppel-Coop is not a natural being. He's supernatural. Diane is natural.

My point in all of this is to say that I think the version of Dougie that will be manufactured from Dale Cooper's hair will be good and far more with it and connected to the real Dale Cooper. I think Janey-E and Sonny Jim are gonna be just fine when their new Dougie shows up.
He'll be better than he ever was before; far more like Dale Cooper than the Dougie that was manufactured by Doppel-Coop.

Phew!

Anyway... just my thoughts after watching the episode once.


Spoiler: show
I'm not entirely sure Dale didn't want to go back to Vegas when this mission ends, I can make arguments for both; though this season has me seriously questioning Cooper as a character since 1989. The best of intentions are there but I feel Dale knows better than to let a manifestation run on. Another Coop could very well be a tool in his arsenal for the perceived showdown.

I'm curious if Dale tries to contact Diane on the way to Twin Peaks... this may also be the first episode of this season that I watch again, the backwards musical performance at the end may be a tremendous trinket for the viewer.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed August 30, 2017 11:41 pm 
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oasisfan35 wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Spoiler: show
It was, apparently, "I'm in the (or a) sheriff station", yeah.

If this was the implication of Coop's request to make another copy/tulpa, which is how I took it, I agree with this:



Janey-E and Sonny Jim surely deserve more than that - but we'll see.

It was, in some respects, a weird episode for me. Thrilling, yes, but I'm kind of mourning the end of the Dougie/Coop character. I've enjoyed this series so much and have never felt impatient with Cooper waking up, I would've been fine had "the old Coop" never returned and we just floated around the world Lynch and Frost had created indefinitely.

Spoiler: show
I totally understand what you're saying. I didn't NEED Dale Cooper to return either. I really loved Dougie/Coop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't literally jump up, cheer out load, and pump my fist when Cooper returned. It was so thrilling and so well executed. It was awesome.

Here's what I think about the "manufacturing." Okay, so we have two examples of manufactured people. The first is Dougie Jones. We assume Evil/Doppel-Cooper made him. And given what we saw in this episode, I think we can assume Doppel-Coop made him using as strand of his own hair.

The second manufactured person we've seen is Diane (Tulpa-Diane). We have less info about her. But I have a feeling she was also manufactured by Doppel-Coop. And he probably did so using a strand of real Diane's hair. This probably happened some time after he raped the Diane. With me so far?

Okay, so two manufactured people who behave in strikingly different ways. Dougie Jones is super weird, a liar, a cheat, kind of an oblivious dick who is awkward and sometimes acts unnaturally. The real world credits his behavior to an accident a few years back. We don't know if he has any memories before he was manufactured (does he know he was manufactured, does he remember Doppel-Coop and share his memories, etc). Tulpa-Diane, however, DOES have Diane's memories and emotions. And she's struggling to do what Dopple-Coop wants her to do and what she knows is right. She's fighting her own nature.

Okay, so why? Why are the two manufactured people so totally different? Why is one so connected to their "real" counterpart and the other seemingly not at all?

Here's my guess: I think it's who made them; from whom they actually originate. Since Tulpa-Diane is made from real Diane, she is more self-aware and active and conscious (for lack of a better word). She's made from a real person. Dougie Jones, however, was manufactured from a Doppelganger. He's sort of a copy of a copy (if you will). Or, if you prefer, Doppel-Coop is not a natural being. He's supernatural. Diane is natural.

My point in all of this is to say that I think the version of Dougie that will be manufactured from Dale Cooper's hair will be good and far more with it and connected to the real Dale Cooper. I think Janey-E and Sonny Jim are gonna be just fine when their new Dougie shows up.
He'll be better than he ever was before; far more like Dale Cooper than the Dougie that was manufactured by Doppel-Coop.

Phew!

Anyway... just my thoughts after watching the episode once.


Spoiler: show
I'm not entirely sure Dale didn't want to go back to Vegas when this mission ends, I can make arguments for both; though this season has me seriously questioning Cooper as a character since 1989. The best of intentions are there but I feel Dale knows better than to let a manifestation run on. Another Coop could very well be a tool in his arsenal for the perceived showdown.

I'm curious if Dale tries to contact Diane on the way to Twin Peaks... this may also be the first episode of this season that I watch again, the backwards musical performance at the end may be a tremendous trinket for the viewer.

All fair points.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Thu August 31, 2017 1:43 am 
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Duality is a strong feature in Twin Peaks, as implied by the name.

Fuckers...

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Thu August 31, 2017 3:53 am 
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washing machine wrote:
Guys. Episode 16 is even more rewarding when you waited until power came back on in your household to watch it. :shock:

Are you in the Houston area??? I lived in Pearland for a few years. Either way I'm glad you're safe and that you could enjoy the episode!


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Thu August 31, 2017 3:56 am 
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parasolmonster wrote:
washing machine wrote:
Guys. Episode 16 is even more rewarding when you waited until power came back on in your household to watch it. :shock:

Are you in the Houston area??? I lived in Pearland for a few years. Either way I'm glad you're safe and that you could enjoy the episode!
durdencommatyler wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Spoiler: show
It was, apparently, "I'm in the (or a) sheriff station", yeah.

If this was the implication of Coop's request to make another copy/tulpa, which is how I took it, I agree with this:



Janey-E and Sonny Jim surely deserve more than that - but we'll see.

It was, in some respects, a weird episode for me. Thrilling, yes, but I'm kind of mourning the end of the Dougie/Coop character. I've enjoyed this series so much and have never felt impatient with Cooper waking up, I would've been fine had "the old Coop" never returned and we just floated around the world Lynch and Frost had created indefinitely.

Spoiler: show
I totally understand what you're saying. I didn't NEED Dale Cooper to return either. I really loved Dougie/Coop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't literally jump up, cheer out load, and pump my fist when Cooper returned. It was so thrilling and so well executed. It was awesome.

Here's what I think about the "manufacturing." Okay, so we have two examples of manufactured people. The first is Dougie Jones. We assume Evil/Doppel-Cooper made him. And given what we saw in this episode, I think we can assume Doppel-Coop made him using as strand of his own hair.

The second manufactured person we've seen is Diane (Tulpa-Diane). We have less info about her. But I have a feeling she was also manufactured by Doppel-Coop. And he probably did so using a strand of real Diane's hair. This probably happened some time after he raped the Diane. With me so far?

Okay, so two manufactured people who behave in strikingly different ways. Dougie Jones is super weird, a liar, a cheat, kind of an oblivious dick who is awkward and sometimes acts unnaturally. The real world credits his behavior to an accident a few years back. We don't know if he has any memories before he was manufactured (does he know he was manufactured, does he remember Doppel-Coop and share his memories, etc). Tulpa-Diane, however, DOES have Diane's memories and emotions. And she's struggling to do what Dopple-Coop wants her to do and what she knows is right. She's fighting her own nature.

Okay, so why? Why are the two manufactured people so totally different? Why is one so connected to their "real" counterpart and the other seemingly not at all?

Here's my guess: I think it's who made them; from whom they actually originate. Since Tulpa-Diane is made from real Diane, she is more self-aware and active and conscious (for lack of a better word). She's made from a real person. Dougie Jones, however, was manufactured from a Doppelganger. He's sort of a copy of a copy (if you will). Or, if you prefer, Doppel-Coop is not a natural being. He's supernatural. Diane is natural.

My point in all of this is to say that I think the version of Dougie that will be manufactured from Dale Cooper's hair will be good and far more with it and connected to the real Dale Cooper. I think Janey-E and Sonny Jim are gonna be just fine when their new Dougie shows up.
He'll be better than he ever was before; far more like Dale Cooper than the Dougie that was manufactured by Doppel-Coop.

Phew!

Anyway... just my thoughts after watching the episode once.


Spoiler: show
I hadn't thought about the different ways that the tulpas were made. That makes a whole lot of sense!


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Mon September 04, 2017 5:24 am 
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One word...
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sonofabitch

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Mon September 04, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Wow.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Mon September 04, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Early in the series I commented in this thread that somehow the Phillip Jeffries scene in FWWM was the Big Bang of this whole thing. Out of time and fractured, operating on dream logic. I interpret this whole Twin Peaks universe that way now. The ending gives me a weird sort of closure on all the other mysteries; Audrey, Ed and Norma, Dougie's world, everything. "Is it future, or is it past" might as well be "time is a flat circle." Or "Infinite Jest".

This was a fun ride, but with one of the saddest endings I've ever felt.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Mon September 04, 2017 11:53 pm 
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I finished watching around 1:30 last night, I don't think I fell asleep until around 3-3:30 and Twin Peaks has been at the back of my mind all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 1:46 am 
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oasisfan35 wrote:
I finished watching around 1:30 last night, I don't think I fell asleep until around 3-3:30 and Twin Peaks has been at the back of my mind all day.


I had a difficult time sleeping as well.

My overall impression is that part 17 was the finale. Part 18 was the beginning of something new (and yes, I know this is Lynch we're talking about. I never expected a nicely wrapped up happy-ending.) If we don't get a season 4 this will still be the finest season of television I've ever seen, but I firmly believe that there is at least one season left.

The last scene absolutely terrified me.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 3:10 am 
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Yeah, that 30 seconds will surely be with me the rest of my days. Thanks, David.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 4:23 am 
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I'll really miss Twin Peaks, but I really really don't need the story to continue. Maybe some supplemental books or more missing pieces, but please let that last scene be the end* of the story proper.

*
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there is no end to this Möbius strip.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 2:07 pm 
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I finished it yesterday. Here are some thoughts.

Spoiler: show
Man, what an ending. Everything was perfect...coop going back in time, laura, the whole thing..so close...and then, this whole new weird place were everything is similar but its not...And that fucking ending. Im still shocked. This series is perfect....i love it...seeing Kyle and Sheryl again was such a big thing yesterday...i remind me of myself watching the series as a kid in the tv...do i want more? Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 6:34 pm 
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The final scene was really something else, Mrs. Chalfont, Alice Tremond, thinking of the Palmer house as a legitimate character and not simply another set among the many. I immediately thought back to Hawk’s visit to Sarah, the unexplained noise within the home and the Palmer stairs that were essentially the same as seen within the portal Gordon witnessed as well as the various Coops within the other realm on the way to Jeffries. Episode 18 didn’t do much in the way of the standard television season and series finales that try to achieve finality (for the viewer) often at the detriment of the story but what it did do was propel the series on to mythic status.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Tue September 05, 2017 10:03 pm 
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That was such a deep and worthy ending, I can't articulate my thoughts better than that right now.

It blew away all of my discomfort with the almost cartoon-like quality of Cooper's "reawakening" and confrontation with Bad COOP/BOB.

This series was a gift.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed September 06, 2017 12:49 am 
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parasolmonster wrote:
washing machine wrote:
Guys. Episode 16 is even more rewarding when you waited until power came back on in your household to watch it. :shock:

Are you in the Houston area??? I lived in Pearland for a few years. Either way I'm glad you're safe and that you could enjoy the episode!

Just seeing this. Thanks for the well wishes. Pearland looks like it may have had it rough. I live in Montrose and stayed dry.

Going to start helping my parents tomorrow. FEMA declared their neighborhood a 100% loss, which obviously includes the house I grew up in. Not looking forward to seeing the damage.

In a cruel "art imitates life" kind of way, that final scene is hitting me especially hard when I think about it in the context of a disaster's aftermath. A familiar home with unfamiliar faces behind the door. Confusion and horror. A feeling that nothing will ever be the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed September 06, 2017 4:07 am 
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I'm so sorry to hear it. I used to love going to the thrift shops in Montrose. It's a really fun area.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Peaks [2017]
PostPosted: Wed September 06, 2017 2:42 pm 
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I need to talk about the ending guys. More discussion.

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