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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:18 pm 
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The Master
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Jorge wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Yes but "broad strokes" isn't really great given the circumstances. Imagine if any other beloved show were to end with "You're now going to jail for partaking in these heinous crimes, none of which we ever showed nor otherwise communicated to the viewer during the entirety of our run!"

That would be weird. But as you know Better Call Saul is a pretty unique situation. If this other hypothetical show of yours was in a similar position (serving as a prequel, sequel, and inbetweenquel to a much, much bigger show with a much wider cultural impact) it would be comparable. I think pretending that Breaking Bad didn't exist to ensure that BCS conforms to some formalistic idea of sound storytelling architecture would've been silly, and pretending that audiences today aren't aware of it is also kind of a pointless exercise

Could anyone who actually watched all the Star Wars shows weigh in? I haven't kept up, but it goes back to the "star wars burrito" argument.

In any event, I'm not sure the notion that a single bit of IP fiction should stand on its own merits qualifies as "formalistic idea of sound storytelling architecture." That feels like liberal posturing. It just seems like basic creative consumption 101: You shouldn't necessarily have to reference a different work to fully appreciate a work.

But I gather that opinions will continue to diverge, and that's fine. I've said my piece. Terrific show! I think it stumbled just a little bit in the final season.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:23 pm 
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I don't know what a star wars burrito is or what you mean by liberal posturing

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:31 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
I don't know what a star wars burrito is or what you mean by liberal posturing

There was an article that went around several weeks back that likened the de rigueur Marvel/Star Wars approach to storytelling to a burrito, the idea being that there was a distinct piece of IP that would serve as the point of entry given your consumption preferences, but the hope was to get you into the broader ecosystem.

By liberal posturing, I'm suggesting that your argument against "formalistic storytelling ideas" feels like a rejection of form and convention simply for the sake of rejecting them; at face value, there's nothing backing your argument other than its direct opposition to the norm.

It's fine. I don't need to beleaguer the point any more. I love you and I love Jimmy and Kim.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:31 pm 
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See also: Ewok Taquitos


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:38 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Jorge wrote:
I don't know what a star wars burrito is or what you mean by liberal posturing

There was an article that went around several weeks back that likened the de rigueur Marvel/Star Wars approach to storytelling to a burrito, the idea being that there was a distinct piece of IP that would serve as the point of entry given your consumption preferences, but the hope was to get you into the broader ecosystem.

By liberal posturing, I'm suggesting that your argument against "formalistic storytelling ideas" feels like a rejection of form and convention simply for the sake of rejecting them; at face value, there's nothing backing your argument other than its direct opposition to the norm.


Not clear at all what that has to do with liberalism other than that you've probably heard the phrase on a recent podcast.

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its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:40 pm 
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:haha:

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:40 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Jorge wrote:
I don't know what a star wars burrito is or what you mean by liberal posturing

There was an article that went around several weeks back that likened the de rigueur Marvel/Star Wars approach to storytelling to a burrito, the idea being that there was a distinct piece of IP that would serve as the point of entry given your consumption preferences, but the hope was to get you into the broader ecosystem.

By liberal posturing, I'm suggesting that your argument against "formalistic storytelling ideas" feels like a rejection of form and convention simply for the sake of rejecting them; at face value, there's nothing backing your argument other than its direct opposition to the norm.

It's fine. I don't need to beleaguer the point any more. I love you and I love Jimmy and Kim.

You misunderstand me, I'm not arguing against the basic tenets of sound storytelling just "for the sake of rejecting them". I'm saying that the filmmakers planted their flag early on with the Omaha framing device. They were then faced with a choice. One of their options was to ensure that BCS adhered to that very traditional diegetic structure, where nothing that happens outside of what we show within the episodes of Better Call Saul counts, so that it can fully stand on its own as an independent work.

This would lead to some complications, not the least of which is a lot of redundancy (like VinylGuy mentioned), but it would be technically "correct" (formalism). Another choice is to lean on the show's unconventional nature and focus on crafting an ending for the show's main characters that develops the show's themes. The trade-off to this one is the dissonance we're talking about now. It's not perfect, but I'm glad they went with this option

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:43 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Jorge wrote:
I don't know what a star wars burrito is or what you mean by liberal posturing

There was an article that went around several weeks back that likened the de rigueur Marvel/Star Wars approach to storytelling to a burrito, the idea being that there was a distinct piece of IP that would serve as the point of entry given your consumption preferences, but the hope was to get you into the broader ecosystem.

By liberal posturing, I'm suggesting that your argument against "formalistic storytelling ideas" feels like a rejection of form and convention simply for the sake of rejecting them; at face value, there's nothing backing your argument other than its direct opposition to the norm.

It's fine. I don't need to beleaguer the point any more. I love you and I love Jimmy and Kim.

You misunderstand me, I'm not arguing against the basic tenets of sound storytelling just "for the sake of rejecting them". I'm saying that the filmmakers planted their flag early on with the Omaha framing device. They were then faced with a choice. One of their options was to ensure that BCS adhered to that very traditional diegetic structure, where nothing that happens outside of what we show within the episodes of Better Call Saul counts, so that it can fully stand on its own as an independent work.

This would lead to some complications, not the least of which is a lot of redundancy (like VinylGuy mentioned), but it would be technically "correct" (formalism). Another choice is to lean on the show's unconventional nature and focus on crafting an ending for the show's main characters that develops the show's themes. The trade-off to this one is the dissonance we're talking about now. It's not perfect, but I'm glad they went with this option

We agree on this last point and that's probably all that matters.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 8:47 pm 
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Im going to say its the perfect choice.

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 10:08 pm 
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A perfect goddamn ending.

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:00 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Finale was very satisfying. The one criticism I have is that you must have watched all of Breaking Bad to understand what was going on, which hadn’t really been the case up until now.


Fuck that, nobody should be watching BCS without having seen BB. It's not standalone.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:02 pm 
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Mecca wrote:
I honestly do not care about people who watched BCS without seeing Breaking Bad first and felt a little lost.


Yes! In fact, they can all go to hell. Who gives a shit? It's probably 1% of the viewers.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:10 pm 
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Death to all of them

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lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
Hehe


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:10 pm 
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yeah fuck em!!

lets burn thinggsssss

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:16 pm 
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Shun the unbelievers!!!! Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:22 pm 
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Guys all I was saying it was a little awkward to mean so heavily on BB in the final episode. Jeez!


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:24 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Guys all I was saying it was a little awkward to mean so heavily on BB in the final episode. Jeez!

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:42 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Finale was very satisfying. The one criticism I have is that you must have watched all of Breaking Bad to understand what was going on, which hadn’t really been the case up until now.


Fuck that, nobody should be watching BCS without having seen BB. It's not standalone.

My cousin started with BCS because it’s the prequel. He’s caught up to this last season and is waiting for it to hit Netflix. I told him to watch BB in the interim. That will get him where he needs to be for Omaha when he gets to actually start this last season.

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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed August 17, 2022 11:56 pm 
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If you didn't know BB, then the end of BCS was likely 3 episodes prior to Monday. It was the point at which the intro changed.


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 Post subject: Re: TV: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Thu August 18, 2022 12:15 am 
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Mecca wrote:
What’s everyone’s time machine moment?

March 20, 2006.


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