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I saw her play Honey in the 2012 revival of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf on Broadway. She brought the house down. I'd never heard of her before and she totally blew my mind. I've been playing close attention to her career since then. She's just remarkable.
It was interesting During the episode i actually believed on her But then i went to read some stuff and nah She lied
That woman saying "It was a nicer story" is a hint
I'm so confident that she was not lying that I have no interest in reading "evidence" to the contrary. The show is perfect as it is in my mind. She is telling the truth. That's the show. And it's magical. It never crossed my mind at all that she was lying. It never crossed my mind that there COULD BE a different take.
It's thematically perfect if she's telling the truth. A lie adds nothing.
It was interesting During the episode i actually believed on her But then i went to read some stuff and nah She lied
That woman saying "It was a nicer story" is a hint
I'm so confident that she was not lying that I have no interest in reading "evidence" to the contrary. The show is perfect as it is in my mind. She is telling the truth. That's the show. And it's magical. It never crossed my mind at all that she was lying. It never crossed my mind that there COULD BE a different take.
It's thematically perfect if she's telling the truth. A lie adds nothing.
It's thematically perfect if she lies.
Long dscans post coming...
_________________ I'll be the one in the lobby in the green fuck me shirt. The green one.
This is not a show about science fiction. The Leftovers is a show about how people respond to tragedy, so it's important to understand what I mean by tragedy.
Tragedy is something that does not make rational sense. It is absurd. It is what talking heads on TV talk about when they describe something as a "senseless act of violence" because it makes no sense to us.
The best example is the Sandy Hook shooting. A young man took his gun and killed 20-something children whom he did not know. That sentence makes no goddamn sense. He gained no utility from that act.
Not only was this act terrifying because we can empathize with those parents, it was terrifying because it brought down the illusion of order in our world. It showed us that things that make no sense can happen to anyone.
The way people respond to this type of tragedy is by creating a story. Some choose the story of easy access to guns. For some it's a lack of mental health support. For others it's violent video games or drugs or social isolation. None of these stories really make the tragedy make sense, but they are a better story then senselessness.
My favorite example was a Facebook post from my old boss. A strong-faith Christian man, he wrote about how God was with those Sandy Hook children when they died. It didn't make sense, but I could tell he put a lot of thought into it and it helped him process the tragedy and retain his faith.
In The Leftovers, it makes sense that church attendance would see a decline. The departure was so senseless, that people stopped being able to believe in something that helped their lives make sense. The Matt Jamison character works so hard to find dirt on the departed because he has to believe that they were taken for a reason.
But for most people it wasn't enough, so they began to create their own stories: the Guilty Remnant, Holy Wayne, the Eddie Winslow character, and Miracle, Texas. Even holdouts like Kevin Garvey eventually began to believe he was the second coming of Christ. Nora was the only character who refused to write her own fiction. She even made it her mission to expose frauds.
It also makes sense that the protagonist was a cop, someone who's role was to maintain order in the face is increasing disorder as people clung to crazier ideas to try and make sense of what happened.
The finale wasn't a story about Nora finding out what happened to her family. It was about her finally creating her own story. If you pay attention, her tale concludes that her family is actually better off wherever they are. Self-delusion is the path to comfort and happiness in the face of tragedy. The awareness of senselessness will drown you. She had to find the perfect story to be able to move on and start her new life with Kevin.
_________________ I'll be the one in the lobby in the green fuck me shirt. The green one.
This is not a show about science fiction. The Leftovers is a show about how people respond to tragedy, so it's important to understand what I mean by tragedy.
Tragedy is something that does not make rational sense. It is absurd. It is what talking heads on TV talk about when they describe something as a "senseless act of violence" because it makes no sense to us.
The best example is the Sandy Hook shooting. A young man took his gun and killed 20-something children whom he did not know. That sentence makes no goddamn sense. He gained no utility from that act.
Not only was this act terrifying because we can empathize with those parents, it was terrifying because it brought down the illusion of order in our world. It showed us that things that make no sense can happen to anyone.
The way people respond to this type of tragedy is by creating a story. Some choose the story of easy access to guns. For some it's a lack of mental health support. For others it's violent video games or drugs or social isolation. None of these stories really make the tragedy make sense, but they are a better story then senselessness.
My favorite example was a Facebook post from my old boss. A strong-faith Christian man, he wrote about how God was with those Sandy Hook children when they died. It didn't make sense, but I could tell he put a lot of thought into it and it helped him process the tragedy and retain his faith.
In The Leftovers, it makes sense that church attendance would see a decline. The departure was so senseless, that people stopped being able to believe in something that helped their lives make sense. The Matt Jamison character works so hard to find dirt on the departed because he has to believe that they were taken for a reason.
But for most people it wasn't enough, so they began to create their own stories: the Guilty Remnant, Holy Wayne, the Eddie Winslow character, and Miracle, Texas. Even holdouts like Kevin Garvey eventually began to believe he was the second coming of Christ. Nora was the only character who refused to write her own fiction. She even made it her mission to expose frauds.
It also makes sense that the protagonist was a cop, someone who's role was to maintain order in the face is increasing disorder as people clung to crazier ideas to try and make sense of what happened.
The finale wasn't a story about Nora finding out what happened to her family. It was about her finally creating her own story. If you pay attention, her tale concludes that her family is actually better off wherever they are. Self-delusion is the path to comfort and happiness in the face of tragedy. The awareness of senselessness will drown you. She had to find the perfect story to be able to move on and start her new life with Kevin.
My read on a lot of it is very different than yours. For example, I saw Matt's motivations in exposing everyone's dirty laundry in the opposite way you described.
As far as the end goes... I did pay attention. And again my read, even having paid attention, is pretty different. The heartbreak is a large part of what makes the ending so wonderful, especially in a show about loss and grief.
What you describe is a valid take and well articulated but it undercuts the power of the show and the brilliance of the finale. It does work well enough thematically if you look at it that way, but it just isn't interesting or satisfying to me. Especially when looking at it the other way works better thematically, dramatically, and psychologically.
Just like LOST I think "whatever happened, happened" is much more interesting and fulfilling. As we all know art is wonderful because of its subjectivity. I don't want to take away other people's interpretations or alter their journey in any way. If what you posted works for you and is part of the reason you love the show, then far be it for me to argue.
I appreciate you taking the time to type that out and post it. Like I said, it was a great post. And M_D is right. You should post more.
Ultimately, I think the show demands (not asks) that you decide for yourself. And it provides support for whichever conclusion you arrive to. It's just masterful.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2817 Location: Connecticut
durdencommatyler wrote:
Ultimately, I think the show demands (not asks) that you decide for yourself. And it provides support for whichever conclusion you arrive to. It's just masterful.
Agreed, which is one of the reasons it sticks with people, even years later. I want to believe she is not lying, and feel that perhaps she isn't. Dscans post is very compelling also - and when psychobain essentially said it wouldn't change anything, I do think that's in the spirit of Dscans post, if in the end it's really just about closure.
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Regina King.
