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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:07 am 
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PHATJ wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.

I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.

I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.

I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.

I'm not sure people who commit suicide should be indulged in that way, though. If feeling as though they're doing something fundamentally morally wrong, for which they will be judged by their loved ones, might give them a second's pause before committing the act, then it's worth it. I think the idea that their pain will be retrospectively "understood" after their passing is potentially very harmful.

This is quite a personal topic for me too, I should add, and doesn't arise from a lack of experience with suicide, mental illness and serious depression.

Moral pressure and the judgment of "loved ones" is the last fucking thing I could imagine needing to deal when struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. Come on. This is incredibly cruel.

Cruel is what people like Bourdain and Spade have done to their daughters; for their entire lifetime, they need to carry the hurt of knowing that their parents prioritised their own pain, even for that moment, above them. That isn't to suggest they shouldn't be acknowledged as human beings who were hurting and in pain, but I really think it has to be stressed how desperately wrong those actions are, and how morally indefensible.

Anyway, this discussion probably isn't going to end up with anyone involved coming to a different view - it's probably fruitless to continue.

Yeah, even listening to this opinion is making me viscerally angry, so we'll just agree that you're a heartless, horrible monster and move on.

Deal.

Life can be beautiful but also so very hard - we all need to stay strong for those around us.

I don't even agree with this sentiment!

I completely agree with spenno on this. As someone who deals with depression, and has had suicidal thoughts, I can attest that understanding the harm that such an act would cause not only to my children, but my parents, my brother and his family, and my close friends All of those people have at times been my only reason to live. I couldn’t bear the thought of deeply scarring my children, breaking their hearts forever. And I didn’t want to let my parents and my friends down. I knew they loved me, and they were undeserving of the pain I would’ve caused them. I’ve since found countless things to live for and reasons to be happy, but in my lowest times, the knowledge of the hurt I would’ve caused them is absolutely what kept me alive.

Yes, we already know you aren’t capable of empathy


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:08 am 
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seems like the opposite though.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:12 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
seems like the opposite though.

How so? He agrees that suicide is selfish and that people should just “stay strong” for other people - then describes how he believes that only because of his own individual experience, as if that applies to everyone else. That’s not empathetic at all.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:14 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
seems like the opposite though.

How so? He agrees that suicide is selfish and that people should just “stay strong” for other people - then describes how he believes that only because of his own individual experience, as if that applies to everyone else. That’s not empathetic at all.

His entire post was about how his family and friends would be affected. That's empathy.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:17 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
seems like the opposite though.

How so? He agrees that suicide is selfish and that people should just “stay strong” for other people - then describes how he believes that only because of his own individual experience, as if that applies to everyone else. That’s not empathetic at all.

His entire post was about how his family and friends would be affected. That's empathy.

For his family in his situation. Not for other suicidal people.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:18 am 
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The only reason I don’t blow my brains out is because of how much it would devastate my wife. That is it. I could never do that to her. That doesn’t mean I think other people who commit suicide are being selfish.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:25 am 
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Oh my god, LV :shake:

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Post better and stop being a dork.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 1:33 am 
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Anyway, here is a random graph I found. What what was going on in 1970 and 1990?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 2:25 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
The only reason I don’t blow my brains out is because of how much it would devastate my wife. That is it. I could never do that to her. That doesn’t mean I think other people who commit suicide are being selfish.


Please call 800-273-8255, LV

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 2:58 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Anyway, here is a random graph I found. What what was going on in 1970 and 1990?

Image

everyone coming down from the decade long parties that were the 60s and 80s


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:05 am 
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Balki wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
The only reason I don’t blow my brains out is because of how much it would devastate my wife. That is it. I could never do that to her. That doesn’t mean I think other people who commit suicide are being selfish.


Please call 800-273-8255, LV


I also recommend 800-252-4031 and requesting extra cheese with green peppers, onions, and bacon; because it is impossible to be staring an entire hot cheesy pizza in the face and be unhappy

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:07 am 
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Anthony Bourdain is nobody to me. My wife is a fan, so I know him. I couldn’t get past the smugness. But the reactions here by keyboard slammers I appreciate - LV, Joey, Ruddo, etc. - bring me back to just over a year ago. I didn’t know Cornell, but I cried. I stayed home from work, watched Cornell videos all day, and hit refresh on threads here. I tried to make sense of it. I was sad and angry. I felt ripped off. Mostly, because I loved him, I convinced myself that it was drugs and that he wasn’t in his right mind.

And here’s the thing: he probably wasn’t. In the past year I’ve had more days where I’ve thought about suicide than not. I think about it early in the morning when I’m walking the dog and late at night when I’m drinking alone. I don’t know why. I have a good job, great friends, a loving wife, healthy kids, and numerous things to look forward to. I also have depression, anxiety, misophonia, and almost certainly bipolar disorder, but I’ll never go in for any of it because I’m terrified that I’ll be prescribed a pill, take it with alcohol, and do what I wouldn’t otherwise do. Cornell wrote songs about suicide for 30 years, and then a pill or 6 took away the inhibition. Sober me would never type this on RM. I’ll be embarrassed in the morning.

So tonight I finished off another Costco bottle of cheap whiskey. I haven’t been sober for more than 48 hours since Thanksgiving. Tomorrow, I’ll try again. I have an 11 year old, too. And an 8 year old. But I’m not 61. Just 41. Miles to go before I sleep. Rip, Anthony, and everyone else who gave in today.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:17 am 
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daft twat wrote:
Anthony Bourdain is nobody to me. My wife is a fan, so I know him. I couldn’t get past the smugness. But the reactions here by keyboard slammers I appreciate - LV, Joey, Ruddo, etc. - bring me back to just over a year ago. I didn’t know Cornell, but I cried. I stayed home from work, watched Cornell videos all day, and hit refresh on threads here. I tried to make sense of it. I was sad and angry. I felt ripped off. Mostly, because I loved him, I convinced myself that it was drugs and that he wasn’t in his right mind.

And here’s the thing: he probably wasn’t. In the past year I’ve had more days where I’ve thought about suicide than not. I think about it early in the morning when I’m walking the dog and late at night when I’m drinking alone. I don’t know why. I have a good job, great friends, a loving wife, healthy kids, and numerous things to look forward to. I also have depression, anxiety, misophonia, and almost certainly bipolar disorder, but I’ll never go in for any of it because I’m terrified that I’ll be prescribed a pill, take it with alcohol, and do what I wouldn’t otherwise do. Cornell wrote songs about suicide for 30 years, and then a pill or 6 took away the inhibition. Sober me would never type this on RM. I’ll be embarrassed in the morning.

So tonight I finished off another Costco bottle of cheap whiskey. I haven’t been sober for more than 48 hours since Thanksgiving. Tomorrow, I’ll try again. I have an 11 year old, too. And an 8 year old. But I’m not 61. Just 41. Miles to go before I sleep. Rip, Anthony, and everyone else who gave in today.


Thanks for sharing this. For all the schtick on this board it is refreshing to read so many users revealing/sharing their struggles.


Last edited by Monkey_Driven on Sat June 09, 2018 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:17 am 
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daft twat wrote:
Anthony Bourdain is nobody to me. My wife is a fan, so I know him. I couldn’t get past the smugness. But the reactions here by keyboard slammers I appreciate - LV, Joey, Ruddo, etc. - bring me back to just over a year ago. I didn’t know Cornell, but I cried. I stayed home from work, watched Cornell videos all day, and hit refresh on threads here. I tried to make sense of it. I was sad and angry. I felt ripped off. Mostly, because I loved him, I convinced myself that it was drugs and that he wasn’t in his right mind.

And here’s the thing: he probably wasn’t. In the past year I’ve had more days where I’ve thought about suicide than not. I think about it early in the morning when I’m walking the dog and late at night when I’m drinking alone. I don’t know why. I have a good job, great friends, a loving wife, healthy kids, and numerous things to look forward to. I also have depression, anxiety, misophonia, and almost certainly bipolar disorder, but I’ll never go in for any of it because I’m terrified that I’ll be prescribed a pill, take it with alcohol, and do what I wouldn’t otherwise do. Cornell wrote songs about suicide for 30 years, and then a pill or 6 took away the inhibition. Sober me would never type this on RM. I’ll be embarrassed in the morning.

So tonight I finished off another Costco bottle of cheap whiskey. I haven’t been sober for more than 48 hours since Thanksgiving. Tomorrow, I’ll try again. I have an 11 year old, too. And an 8 year old. But I’m not 61. Just 41. Miles to go before I sleep. Rip, Anthony, and everyone else who gave in today.

This is the best post I’ve ever read on RM. Now I’m crying again. I love you, DT. This is poetry.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:19 am 
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Love you, daft.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:23 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
This is the best post I’ve ever read on RM.


Ahem.

viewtopic.php?p=774111#p774111

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A+


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:24 am 
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all the suicidal people need to get help :hooray:

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 3:34 am 
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daft twat wrote:
Anthony Bourdain is nobody to me. My wife is a fan, so I know him. I couldn’t get past the smugness. But the reactions here by keyboard slammers I appreciate - LV, Joey, Ruddo, etc. - bring me back to just over a year ago. I didn’t know Cornell, but I cried. I stayed home from work, watched Cornell videos all day, and hit refresh on threads here. I tried to make sense of it. I was sad and angry. I felt ripped off. Mostly, because I loved him, I convinced myself that it was drugs and that he wasn’t in his right mind.

And here’s the thing: he probably wasn’t. In the past year I’ve had more days where I’ve thought about suicide than not. I think about it early in the morning when I’m walking the dog and late at night when I’m drinking alone. I don’t know why. I have a good job, great friends, a loving wife, healthy kids, and numerous things to look forward to. I also have depression, anxiety, misophonia, and almost certainly bipolar disorder, but I’ll never go in for any of it because I’m terrified that I’ll be prescribed a pill, take it with alcohol, and do what I wouldn’t otherwise do. Cornell wrote songs about suicide for 30 years, and then a pill or 6 took away the inhibition. Sober me would never type this on RM. I’ll be embarrassed in the morning.

So tonight I finished off another Costco bottle of cheap whiskey. I haven’t been sober for more than 48 hours since Thanksgiving. Tomorrow, I’ll try again. I have an 11 year old, too. And an 8 year old. But I’m not 61. Just 41. Miles to go before I sleep. Rip, Anthony, and everyone else who gave in today.


Stay with it, DT. We’re with you, man.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 4:02 am 
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Long time listener, first time caller. I've got nothing to add except to echo that it's refreshing to read real talk here.

This link is making the rounds on my facebook feed today. I've learned that I have a network full of industry friends, so you can imagine what that feed looks like. It's good to hear stories and thoughts from so many people feeling so many things.

http://chefswithissues.com/


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P.
PostPosted: Sat June 09, 2018 4:04 am 
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I could see myself pulling a Hemingway when I'm old and broken and there isn't anything left to do, but for now, life's a party!

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