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My entire point is that it isn't as black or white as that. I can think it's the wrong decision and factor in leaving behind his daughter in my judgment of the act without believing he is selfish or a coward. It's not HE WAS DEPRESSED CUT HIM SOME SLACK or WHAT A SELFISH PRICK. It can be in the middle.
Joined: Thu November 21, 2013 10:01 pm Posts: 1847
daft twat wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
Wow
Sad, as always, and I know suicide doesn’t have a type, but he seemed like someone who would go out that way. Like Hemingway, kind of. Old age just isn’t for some people.
I agree with the sentiment that Bourdain seemed exactly like the kind of guy who would go out on his own terms. What he didn't seem like is the kind of guy who would do it in such a way that his best friend would be the one to find him. It's so very sad...I hope whatever demons he was battling are now laid to rest, but it's heartbreaking for his family, friends and many fans around the world who loved him and all he did to bring people together.
_________________ I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 9:32 pm Posts: 31614 Location: Garbage Dump
Birds in Hell wrote:
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.
I'm not sure people who commit suicide should be indulged in that way, though. If feeling as though they're doing something fundamentally morally wrong, for which they will be judged by their loved ones, might give them a second's pause before committing the act, then it's worth it. I think the idea that their pain will be retrospectively "understood" after their passing is potentially very harmful.
This is quite a personal topic for me too, I should add, and doesn't arise from a lack of experience with suicide, mental illness and serious depression.
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 9:32 pm Posts: 31614 Location: Garbage Dump
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.
I'm not sure people who commit suicide should be indulged in that way, though. If feeling as though they're doing something fundamentally morally wrong, for which they will be judged by their loved ones, might give them a second's pause before committing the act, then it's worth it. I think the idea that their pain will be retrospectively "understood" after their passing is potentially very harmful.
This is quite a personal topic for me too, I should add, and doesn't arise from a lack of experience with suicide, mental illness and serious depression.
Moral pressure and the judgment of "loved ones" is the last fucking thing I could imagine needing to deal when struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. Come on. This is incredibly cruel.
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.
I'm not sure people who commit suicide should be indulged in that way, though. If feeling as though they're doing something fundamentally morally wrong, for which they will be judged by their loved ones, might give them a second's pause before committing the act, then it's worth it. I think the idea that their pain will be retrospectively "understood" after their passing is potentially very harmful.
This is quite a personal topic for me too, I should add, and doesn't arise from a lack of experience with suicide, mental illness and serious depression.
Moral pressure and the judgment of "loved ones" is the last fucking thing I could imagine needing to deal when struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. Come on. This is incredibly cruel.
Cruel is what people like Bourdain and Spade have done to their daughters; for their entire lifetime, they need to carry the hurt of knowing that their parents prioritised their own pain, even for that moment, above them. That isn't to suggest they shouldn't be acknowledged as human beings who were hurting and in pain, but I really think it has to be stressed how desperately wrong those actions are, and how morally indefensible.
Anyway, this discussion probably isn't going to end up with anyone involved coming to a different view - it's probably fruitless to continue.
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 9:32 pm Posts: 31614 Location: Garbage Dump
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
I guess it's all been said now, but suicide is inescapably, fundamentally selfish.
I think the media reporting of suicide has a lot to blame for things like this. The morbid detail in which Kate Spade's death was reported, and the focus on how much pain she was in, seems so harmful to me, and I expect it will all be replayed now with Bourdain as it was with Robin Williams, Cornell, and so on.
I don't expect the media to discover a moral conscience, but I think a focus on the pain suicide causes people's families and loved ones would be infinitely preferable to the approach taken now, which seems to indulgently focus on understanding the pain of the person involved to the point where their suicide is characterised as something close to a noble act.
I completely disagree with all of this, and think this kind of approach would only further stigmatize suicide and depression for people who are suffering, and make it harder to understand and empathize.
I'm not sure people who commit suicide should be indulged in that way, though. If feeling as though they're doing something fundamentally morally wrong, for which they will be judged by their loved ones, might give them a second's pause before committing the act, then it's worth it. I think the idea that their pain will be retrospectively "understood" after their passing is potentially very harmful.
This is quite a personal topic for me too, I should add, and doesn't arise from a lack of experience with suicide, mental illness and serious depression.
Moral pressure and the judgment of "loved ones" is the last fucking thing I could imagine needing to deal when struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. Come on. This is incredibly cruel.
Cruel is what people like Bourdain and Spade have done to their daughters; for their entire lifetime, they need to carry the hurt of knowing that their parents prioritised their own pain, even for that moment, above them. That isn't to suggest they shouldn't be acknowledged as human beings who were hurting and in pain, but I really think it has to be stressed how desperately wrong those actions are, and how morally indefensible.
Anyway, this discussion probably isn't going to end up with anyone involved coming to a different view - it's probably fruitless to continue.
Yeah, even listening to this opinion is making me viscerally angry, so we'll just agree that you're a heartless, horrible monster and move on.
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