The board's server will undergo upgrade maintenance tonight, Nov 5, 2014, beginning approximately around 10 PM ET. Prepare for some possible down time during this process.
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:01 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 39899
I've read the first three books three times, the fourth book twice, and the fifth book once, but it's been a few years so some of the details are hazy. I read in this genre, and these types of books, pretty voraciously, so a lot of the real estate that would go towards some of the finer points are taken up with other stories
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:02 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 39899
stip wrote:
Anders wrote:
I
Entitlement —She believes everything in Westeros is hers by right because of who her dad was. She is the ultimate example of a trust fund kid.
Hypocrisy —She lets the Iron Islands go free and become independent but not the North.
She makes the Ironborn give up reaving but then doesn't make any such demands of the Dothraki.
She claims to be the “Breaker of Chains” yet she allows slavery to return to Yunkai and Astapor. She also grabbed a merchant from Qarth and forced him into slavery herself so she became a slaver. She drones on and on about Usurpers and how Robert is one and all his friends must be punished etc. Yet she took power in Meereen an ancient city she had no claim to at all. She is a Usurper herself.
Burns people — Burning someone alive she never be done in any circumstance. Fire is extremely brutal and painful and yet she sees no problem inflicting unimaginable pain and terror on various people
Terrible Ruler- Dany is probally the worst ruler in the story besides Joffrey. She completely fails at ruling Meereen her inly successes there are achieved by her compromising and marrying Hizdahr. All of this is really the Green Grace's doings though. The Green Grace manipulated Dany into everything and is probally the real leader of the Harpies.
Vengeful — Dany is very vengeful and cruel she howls for vengeance anytime something happens she does not agree with. She talks about how the enemies of her khalsar will die screaming, how Mago will beg for death by the time she is through with him, how she will burn down cities with her dragons, how all the usurpers dogs will be punished etc. She does not have it in her to forgive or to see the other side of the argument.
I think I agree with all these, with the caveat that I may not remember the books well enough to fully endorse the terrible ruler point. I remember thinking she wasn't doing that great a job in the books.
Knowing how Martin writes, it would not shock me to see him go down the Mad King road with Dany. It's always been the Starks, not Dany , that were the moral heart of the series. It's just that Dany is written in such a way as to obscure a lot of her potential character flaws. The dothraki are horrible monsters, which she has fully embraced for her own ends. Juxtapose this with Jon Snow (Dany's counterpoint in the Targeryan line)and the wildlings, a similarly demonized people who, unlike the dothraki, are products of horrible circumstances largely just looking to live free and raise families in saftey.
And the people who are most drawn to her (at least from Westeros-Jorah, Tyrion, Barristan) are disenfranchised people desperate to find someone to believe in. How many clear sighted people have abandoned their old allegiances to support Dany.
He's done a masterful job setting her up for a huge fall, I think. And it'll be devastating when it happens.
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:15 pm
Poster of the Year
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm Posts: 37156 Location: September 2020 Poster of the Month
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
You are right, but I'm not certain that she will go fully mad. I've only read the books twice, but at the end of A Game Of Thrones I just loved her. So it was tough later on in the books to realize that she would never be the hero of this story. As the story went on, it was clear she was heading down the wrong path.
On the tv show it's not easier, because I adore Emilia Clarke. However, I think they have shielded her more from bad and cruel decisions there as well.
I really look forward to what GRRM is planning, and I will not be surprised if there is a big fall.
Last edited by Anders on Thu August 17, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:20 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 39899
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
Cersei is too obvious. I mean the parallels are there, for sure, but there's nothing super compelling from a story telling perspective to just have her play that role (though the character work is excellent)
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:22 pm
Poster of the Year
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm Posts: 37156 Location: September 2020 Poster of the Month
stip wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
Cersei is too obvious. I mean the parallels are there, for sure, but there's nothing super compelling from a story telling perspective to just have her play that role (though the character work is excellent)
Not everything has to be a twist. And Cersei as the mad king reborn actually plays into the volanqur prophecy if Jaime ends up killing both Aerys and Cersei.
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
Cersei is too obvious. I mean the parallels are there, for sure, but there's nothing super compelling from a story telling perspective to just have her play that role (though the character work is excellent)
Not everything has to be a twist. And Cersei as the mad king reborn actually plays into the volanqur prophecy if Jaime ends up killing both Aerys and Cersei.
It makes sense for Jamie to kill Cersei, and I think it will happen, but I doubt Cersei needs to be even more crazy. Nothing she does will surprise us.
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:31 pm
The worst
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 39899
cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
Cersei is too obvious. I mean the parallels are there, for sure, but there's nothing super compelling from a story telling perspective to just have her play that role (though the character work is excellent)
Not everything has to be a twist. And Cersei as the mad king reborn actually plays into the volanqur prophecy if Jaime ends up killing both Aerys and Cersei.
it's not a twist, since a twist implies you are suddenly given a huge info dump out of nowhere that makes you re-contextualize everything you knew (Jon's backstory is a twist). This will be something more gradual and organic to the story, I think,
Post subject: Re: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books
Posted: Thu August 17, 2017 9:32 pm
Poster of the Year
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm Posts: 37156 Location: September 2020 Poster of the Month
stip wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I think Danny's inclinations toward madness are a red herring by Martin. If anything, the mad king reborn will be Cersei and not Dany. We get a sense of what's going through each of their minds when they seize positions of power. Dany in Meereen you have a ruler trying desperately to do the right thing, and agonizing over collateral damage and regret for rash decisions. Dany literally chains her Dragons, her children, in a cellar to stop them from killing baseborn children.
Contrast that with Cersei, who literally gets turned on by using wildfire to burn away the former home of her enemies (Tower of the Hand).
Cersei is too obvious. I mean the parallels are there, for sure, but there's nothing super compelling from a story telling perspective to just have her play that role (though the character work is excellent)
Not everything has to be a twist. And Cersei as the mad king reborn actually plays into the volanqur prophecy if Jaime ends up killing both Aerys and Cersei.
it's not a twist, since a twist implies you are suddenly given a huge info dump out of nowhere that makes you re-contextualize everything you knew (Jon's backstory is a twist). This will be something more gradual and organic to the story, I think,
Users browsing this forum: Monkey_Driven and 86 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
