The new song is great, but Jimmy's playing is the definition of uninspired here. Obviously he's still got it, but Billy's direction is hurting the songs. It's a real head scratcher.

yeah, i can see Jimmy´s being underused again.

As for Jimmy´s involvement in the writing, Billy says he just does whatever he feels like it for the song, and he is kinda directed by Billy. I love how he sounds and what he does in most of Shiny. He fucking rules in Zeitgeist.

But you are right, its also the songs itself. I get so bored with Oceania. That alone and the fact that the production sucks really hard plus the drums are not from him...well, its too much.

These days that one is the worst for me.

https://img.youtube.com/vi/IkISMftUhag/hqdefault.jpg

Not sure if that embeds but check out this cover with Jimmy like drums or a sample I’m not sure. The worst thing about Corgan’s issues about validation is that he doesn’t even play to their strengths, and if you don’t like that then you don’t understand it

I really like this cover. Evidently he stitched together a JC drum loop pack he's had since '05. Pretty impressive stuff.

Buttefly Suite - The Good In Goodbye is a very cool 1,2 punch. The little solo in the latter is tasty...im guessing thats Jeff?

But damn the drums sounds awful and bored.

I see Pisces Iscariot is getting a new remaster treatment. Might need to finally pick myself up a copy

I've been listening to Mary Star of the Sea a bunch. It's better than I remembered. The singles are mindblowing to me. Jimmy's drumming, Paz's backing vocals, Billy's earworm vocal melodies. Incredible stuff.

I'm still not a big fan of "Settle Down" -- the way the guitar mimics the vocal melody in the verses just sounds hacky and uninspired. The lyrics are also pretty bad. "Declaration of Faith" is another snoozer. A bit of a shame they're tracks 2 and 3 on an otherwise fantastic start. The three-song run of El Sol > Of a Broken Heart > Ride a Black Swan is particularly killer.

It's patchy, but the highs on this thing are unbelievable. I wish Billy would hurry up and put it, along with TheFutureEmbrace, on streaming services.

i only listened to the whole thing once. I do love the singles though, but at the time i was on the fence with this band.

The Future Embrace is another release i just cant seem to dive into.

Billy took out Zeitgeist from the streaming services because of the backlash it received, i thought it was due to some kind of fight with Warner but no. It just because he doesnt want to put it there, maybe with these two is the same.

Such a weirdo. Those albums were better received than his recent stuff!

well, he makes a good point in the podcast about it. Yeah, it was number 2 in Billboard but seems the label didnt even wanted to promote it and he feels the fans hated it mainly because of what happened in the 2008 tour

what did he say happened in the 2008 tour? that tour, their 20th anniversary tour, had him coming out on stage in a ridiculous sun headdress singing covers about eveyone clapping their hands and closing with meandering 20 minute set the controls for the heart of the sun covers with a lot of questionable song choices in between so yeah the fans hated it.



i, personally, can appreciate the setlist and not catering to a casual fanbase, but let's be real here. also, there's a good band there that has only looked better in hindsight and it was wasted.

I thought 2008 was received alright at the time, though the inclusion of some of the the covers was definitely off-putting to some.

I saw N2 at The Wang which felt like a solid show but goddamn that encore from the front row was the loudest thing I have ever heard. Pal and I were screaming at each other in the streets of Boston because we were both temporarily deaf.
The next night at Mohegan Sun Arena started with the exact same track and it was like a totally different band, Corgan was beyond pissed off with the casual casino crowd not helping. I believe that show was the only one not released of the tour.

i think 2008 was a very low point for Corgan. Seemed he was fighting the crowds every night with those covers and stuff. I love the 2007 tour and the album release but for him it seems it was a moment were everyone was asking for Darcy and James and the old songs.

Vol 2 of Atum is on Spotify. Currently listening to Avalanches and is way better than anything in vol 1. If i recall correctly, i liked pretty much every song from this volume on the podcast.

In other news, a Zwan box set is coming out. Seems he will include all of those acoustic Djali Zwan songs.

Springtimes is really beautiful.

And daaamn Empires does rock.

Moss also slaps, that guitar

loving Beguiled in the context of the album

well, there's nothing as laughably atrocious as hooray on here so there's that. any of the songs that actually sound like they're played by a rock band with a prominent guitarist aren't too bad, and the end run of tracks of beguiled-the culling-springtimes is probably the strongest run of the two 'acts' so far, though that is relatively faint praise.

as long as corgan continues to keep the keyboards/synths and the layered billy/background choruses as a focus of his output i don't think there's much i'm going to like. i think neophyte was the only one of those types of songs that grabbed my ear. and none of these songs have been consistently good all the way through, there's always something in them that pulls them down. i could definitely do without the first minute of springtimes- when the acoustic guitar comes in after that intro it was a real breath of fresh air. that was an unexpected and pleasant surprise at the end of the record. if anyone reading this is going to listen to one thing from this, make it springtimes from 1:00 on.

I think 'To the Grays' is the best song on there. No-nonsense pop rock. Great melodies. Lyrics aren't too cringy, which is rare.

'Moss' is another good one. Kind of has a Machina b-side vibe at its core. I also like 'Every Morning'. I'm surprised Andy gave a nod to 'Neophyte' -- that's potentially the weakest song here IMO. Also, 'Empires' was way better live.