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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 4:52 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
Rangi Guy wrote:
I've not listened to Pisces Iscariot


ah, i see the trag method is getting some fans...

I meant that as a realisation that I need to remedy.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 9:19 pm 
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Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness

Gish was a phenomenally fully realized first album, Siamese Dream was their best album, and Pisces Iscariot was a masterpiece in compiling b-sides into a legitimate album of material. It doesn’t leave much room for a place to go from there, so Billy Corgan and co. set out, explicitly, to make their tombstone album. A double album of epic proportions and scope. The sort of dramatically huge reach that really is a natural outfit for this group. By and large, they mostly nail that, a double album that delivers more than just the goods, but full of nooks and crannies to fill a super fan’s cup for years to come. For every Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Zero, Muzzle, 1979, Bodies, or other easy to digest nugget that screams Smashing Pumpkins, little shifts in Love, Cupid de Locke, Porcelina of the Vast Oceans, Thirty-Three, Stumbleine, We Only Come Out at Night, and Lily (My One and Only) end up defining this record - whether it be needed levity, a orchestrated moment of beauty, or just something to keep you in the album over its long course. And of course, the melodrama and excess also permeates in Tonight, Tonight, Tales of a Scorched Earth, and An Ode to No One. It doesn’t make them bad songs at all and they are very well placed (another masterfully sequenced album). The only obvious knock here is that by the time you get to Farewell ans Goodnight, you are thoroughly exhausted from the weight and length of it all. Nevertheless, this is received now much more positively than when I was a teenager, waiting for them to melt my face off and wondering where all this filler (that ultimately isn’t filler at all) is doing here.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 9:26 pm 
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liebzz wrote:
And of course, the melodrama and excess also permeates in Tonight, Tonight, Tales of a Scorched Earth, and An Ode to No One.

X.y.u: "Am I a joke to you?"

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 10:27 pm 
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The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 1) - Bullet With Butterfly Wings

Since this thing is super long, I am going to break it into chunks that follow each of the extended singles. Bullet With Butterfly Wings brings us a James Iha original with some cover songs - the obvious nod to the Cure actually being the least memorable. The Cars’ You’re All I’ve Got Tonight and Alice Cooper’s Clones (We’re All) take the prize as the most thrilling and interesting takes for me. As for what’s seemingly to come, this might be the least memorable of the singles, though since I don’t have the adequate background I can’t say for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 10:32 pm 
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The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 2) - 1979

The 1979 single brings a hell of a lot more interest and intrigue - in fact, every song here is stellar and can holds its own with the best of Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. Ugly, while conveying a sense of a lack of confidence best found in my 15 year old self, simmers wonderfully without ever having to break. The Boy, Cherry, Believe are all really great songs that thematically seem to fit the single as its own mini-album. Set the Ray to Jerry starts to push this a little further but stays in this space, as if Corgan expected this single wide groove to keep going - you could easily make an album out of this vibe with these songs and a few others that made Mellon Collie. Loved this.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 14, 2021 11:07 pm 
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"Ugly" is such an effortlessly catchy pop song. I feel like that and "Pennies" from the "Zero" single could have been huge hits in that seemingly never-ending post-Mellon Collie, pre-Adore SP wasteland, love those Lost Highway and Batman songs though I do.

And I definitely think "BWBW" is the least essential of the Aeroplane singles, though only by its nature -- if I had to ditch one disc of 1991-1996 SP material, you can bet I wouldn't be tossing any of the ones built around original material. That stuff is just too damn precious.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 1:52 am 
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Set the Ray to Jerry is a personal favorite, a top ten song that gets forgotten because of how much good stuff these guys have, specially at this era.

Corgan could have released another album full of hits if he wanted to on those years.

Mellon Collie is such a wonderful double album...along with The Wall, my two favorites double albums from all time.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 2:11 am 
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Also, im listening to the deluxe edition of Pisces....

Damn some cool stuff there...Translucent, Venus In Furs....they both sound so good....Billy was so good with his vocals in this era.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 11:44 am 
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The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 3) - Zero

As if continuing on the theme of staying in the same space as the single, the songs on Zero are loud, brash, and relentless. God amps up the intensity all the way, as does Marquis in Spades. The exception is Pennies, which is ultimately the easiest song here to digest, and the winner on this listen. Pastichio Medley is a long series of snippets of many other ideas they had ruminating, and is often jarring in its jumping from one idea to the next despite nearly all of it being fuzzy guitars and drums. On the whole, decent enough for me, with Pennies being the real standout.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 11:47 am 
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'Mouths of Babes' is the best track on there, by a considerable margin.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 11:57 am 
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The early Smashing Pumpkins material still sounds great to me but I don't care if I ever hear anything post-Pisces Iscariot ever again.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 11:59 am 
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Wasn't the bonus cd on the Greatest Hits essentially a follow-up to Pisces Iscariot? It was even given it's own title - Judas O - and also included a cover (David Essex's "Rock On") much like how PI included Stevie Nicks "Landslide".

It's certainly a beast in it's own right, and has some gems from the Aeroplane boxset on it, including the title track, 'Marquis in Spades' and 'Set the ray to Jerry'.

The Aeroplane boxset just has some incredible memories for me. Even though I was never the biggest Pumpkins fan, my best mate was and it was all we listened to in 96/97. As both of us were born in 1979 there was a definite feeling of inclusiveness there.
The Zero EP, in particular, is just magic from start to finish (ignoring the crazy medley track at the end). The acoustic b-sides from the Tonight Tonight EP just really resonate as well. Corgan's songwriting chops at this point were off the charts.


Last edited by fyfe79 on Wed September 15, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 12:02 pm 
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Ello Sailor wrote:
'Mouths of Babes' is the best track on there, by a considerable margin.


Agreed. Best track on an exceptional EP.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 12:19 pm 
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The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 4) - Tonight, Tonight

Staying on brand, this one sort of stays in the same space - more like acoustic ruminations almost. Every track here is pretty strong, with Meladori Magpie, Rotten Apples, Blank, and Tonite Reprise connecting the most on this listen. Corgan was indeed in his element on his songwriting. While I can see most of these as b-sides, they certainly are no less solid than what ended up on Mellon Collie.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 1:23 pm 
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The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 5) - Thirty-Three

In addition to being my favorite of these singles (Thirty-Three), it also delivers my favorite of the extended singles here. Definitely the most wide ranging in terms of finally departing from the same sonic spaces, this one might feel like a collection of what’s left, but all of it is great. The Last Song almost feels like just that, until The Smashing Pumpkins give us the title track (The Aeroplane Flies High), which for me is the best track on possible both this release and Mellon Collie. They absolutely nailed this one, Smashing Pumpkins 101 and then some. Transformer keeps up that quality, and The Bells is also quite solid. The cover of My Blue Heaven is a nice way to close this whole thing out - the end of what feels like the first act for Smashing Pumpkins since change is on the way…


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 15, 2021 1:45 pm 
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liebzz wrote:
The Aeroplane Flies High (Part 5) - Thirty-Three

In addition to being my favorite of these singles (Thirty-Three), it also delivers my favorite of the extended singles here. Definitely the most wide ranging in terms of finally departing from the same sonic spaces, this one might feel like a collection of what’s left, but all of it is great. The Last Song almost feels like just that, until The Smashing Pumpkins give us the title track (The Aeroplane Flies High), which for me is the best track on possible both this release and Mellon Collie. They absolutely nailed this one, Smashing Pumpkins 101 and then some. Transformer keeps up that quality, and The Bells is also quite solid. The cover of My Blue Heaven is a nice way to close this whole thing out - the end of what feels like the first act for Smashing Pumpkins since change is on the way…


"The Last Song" was the last dance at our 8th grade graduation dance. This seemed perfectly normal at the time but looking back it seems like it really speaks to the omnipresence of the Pumpkins in the mid-1990's (and also somewhat to the weird, self-contained nature of my grade school) that an obscure B-side from a clunky, impractical box set would grace such a playlist instead of something more univerally recognized. I could be misremembering but I think Billy Corgan's dad plays the guitar solo during the outro.

Anyway, great box set. Glad you tackled it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 16, 2021 3:06 am 
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Adore

Looking back and listening now, with all this material from Gish through Mellon Collie and all these high quality album and non-album tracks, you see that at the close of that last album, there’s a where do we go from here moment. Between the sweeping dramatic songs and the big fuzzy guitars, it feels like they’d done all they could with that sound, and had done so much with it.

So along comes Adore, and the first one thing that comes to mind is “wow this is much different” and then you ask “where’s Chamberlin’s propulsive mark, the engine that drive this band and pushed it as far as it could go? It all seems to hold together well in the first two thirds of this album. The electronic elements work as agenda setters on Ava Adore, Perfect, Daphne Descends, Tear, and Pug…and the slower songs work to cleanse the palate some. The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete sticks out for me as well. But something in the closing of this album, which for what it is runs too long, starts to already tire. The dynamism of Chamberlin is missed where that element may have carried them to a place that beckoned more variety. The songs are good and fine, but I find myself starting to tire and bore of more of the same towards the end. Had they edited this to 50 or 55 minutes rather than 73, it would have left a greater impact - there’s just too much of the same note going on, even if the songs are indeed good.


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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 16, 2021 3:24 am 
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I'm surprised that 'For Martha' and 'Blank Page' escaped without special mention. I think they're basically superior versions of songs like 'Annie-Dog', 'Shame' and 'Behold! The Night Mare'. If you needed to trim any fat, it'd have to be a combination of those three tracks IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 16, 2021 3:50 am 
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For Martha and Behold! The Night Mare might be two of my favorite pumpkins songs from all time.

FM still gets me every time, and i looooove the solo guitar.

Adore is a very special album for me, the first Pumpkins album i bought and loved all the way, and it was super different from what i was listening at the time. It was really something else, challening, difficult listen.

Shame, To Sheila, Ava Adore and Perfect are also amongst the best stuff they did.

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 Post subject: Re: Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 16, 2021 4:22 am 
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I can't get behind the 'Shame' love. You're crazy to put it ahead of stuff like 'Tear', 'Crestfallen', 'Pug', 'Daphne', even 'Once Upon a Time'.

But I guess with LV gone we do need someone dropping bonkers takes. Please, continue.

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