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 Post subject: Kanye West
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:21 pm 
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as much as i don't like the guy (or don't want to like him), these two new tracks from his new album (performed on SNL) are solid. it seems weird to say, but i think he's become a real artist, folks. i don't listen to enough rap/hip-hop to know much outside the mainstream, but i think he's as much of an artist as exists when you consider the majority of the genre.

i mean, of course he's got the hits and name power that makes him a "name brand" and, yes, he borrows a shit ton from other more-creative people, but he also creates something all his own. starting with 2004's The College Dropout, he's made 8 albums and has shown the willingness and the courage to take chances and go with his gut. it's nice to see in a genre that often doesn't allow such creativity (which seems ironic to me). 808s & Heartbreak was a real sea change for him and then MBDTF was good partner to it (like Kid A & Amnesiac, i mean the album titles are pretty revealing about where he was at).

Watch the Throne and now these first tracks off Yeezus have me impressed with his willingness to step outside the box again.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Everything you say about him is very reasonable, I think. If you can separate him from his tabloid exploits there is a lot of wonderful, creative, forward-looking music being made under his name.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:57 am 
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he's one of the few dudes who actually exceeded his hype. i remember even before "through the wire" came out people were talking about how big he was gonna be. pretty sure he produced some classic hip hop tracks before his debut, so it was expected people were eager to hear him take the mic. i hate him as a person, but he's a pretty great artist.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:08 am 
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warehouse wrote:
pretty sure he produced some classic hip hop tracks before his debut


A lot of the key tracks on Jay-Z's first "Blueprint" album were produced by Kanye ("Takeover," "Izzo," "Heart of the City"), as were a few less interesting things on Jay's next couple albums (his contributions to "The Black Album" were among my least favorite tracks on that record). His sampling of The Doors' "Five to One" on "Takeover" is probably my favorite Doors-related thing in existence.

His albums are all inconsistent and he's gotten increasingly self-serious since "Dropout," but his best stuff is truly in a league of its own.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:04 am 
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I think that's part of it for me: that when he's right he's great, but often he spends a good portion of his efforts trying to find that "right" sound/mix. It makes for recognizable periods in his work, but not necessarily a straight progression from period to period. It also makes for a lot of filler, but it's clearly worth it because he's able to come up with something that (even though it might not be) feels new.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:15 am 
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I hear he likes fishsticks...

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"I really enjoy sandwiches but the other guys are so good at making sandwiches that I don't make them. Now I make sandwiches."


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:40 am 
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I love Kanye. Yes, he is a total asshole, but I enjoy the unfiltered look into his mind that his albums offer. "808s and Heartbreak" is in my top 10 of the past 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:58 am 
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Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:20 am 
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verb_to_trust wrote:
Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.

What reason is that?

By every measurable standard I can think of, he's one of the most successful artists of the past 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:30 am 
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turned2black wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.

What reason is that?

By every measurable standard I can think of, he's one of the most successful artists of the past 10 years.


My point is lyrically he is not a great rapper. He has his moments, but a finely produced song like Runaway is totally ruined by his weak rhymes.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:02 pm 
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verb_to_trust wrote:
turned2black wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.

What reason is that?

By every measurable standard I can think of, he's one of the most successful artists of the past 10 years.


My point is lyrically he is not a great rapper. He has his moments, but a finely produced song like Runaway is totally ruined by his weak rhymes.
(insert stutter) i think you missed the point of that song.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:16 pm 
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elliseamos wrote:
these two new tracks from his new album (performed on SNL) are solid.


These songs encapsulate my love-hate relationship with Kanye. These are stunning. He creates tracks that sound like nothing else. And the bat-shit craziness of his mind is on full display. But this tendency for him to disrespect women is so unnecessary and off-putting. It makes me cringe.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Wow I thought the songs on SNL were truly horrible. I glad everyone else is enjoying the songs though. I would never begrudge someone for liking something I don't. I just don't get it this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:28 pm 
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elliseamos wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
turned2black wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.

What reason is that?

By every measurable standard I can think of, he's one of the most successful artists of the past 10 years.


My point is lyrically he is not a great rapper. He has his moments, but a finely produced song like Runaway is totally ruined by his weak rhymes.
(insert stutter) i think you missed the point of that song.


That song is just one example. Lyrically he is weak. There is no debating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:38 pm 
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verb_to_trust wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
turned2black wrote:
verb_to_trust wrote:
Runaway is such a cool sounding song..then it hits the chorus and you hear "raise a toast to the douchebags"... :( There is a reason he was well known for his production first.

What reason is that?

By every measurable standard I can think of, he's one of the most successful artists of the past 10 years.


My point is lyrically he is not a great rapper. He has his moments, but a finely produced song like Runaway is totally ruined by his weak rhymes.
(insert stutter) i think you missed the point of that song.


That song is just one example. Lyrically he is weak. There is no debating it.
who's "lyrics" are better, v_t_t?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:04 am 
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Nas, for starters.....there are a lot more. He is lyrically weak, even his fans acknowledge this.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:23 am 
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verb_to_trust wrote:
Nas, for starters.....there are a lot more. He is lyrically weak, even his fans acknowledge this.

thats not fair, nas is better than everyone.

i really dont think his lyrics are all that good either. i also thought it was hysterical when he started "singing", but his songs are good enough to make up for whatever he lacks as an mc/vocalist.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:18 am 
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Kanye has no shortage of fine moments as a lyricist, unfortunately for a lot of listeners they're offset by an equal abundance of terrible ones which oftentimes mirror what many people perceive as his personal shortcomings. The guy does know how to compose verse, though, and understands how a lot of the signature hip-hop literary devices work. In some cases, I also think he's capable of writing in an undiluted, self-analytical manner that transcends much rap music, such that faulting him for falling short of the benchmarks set by other hip-hop lyricists almost misses the point.

In any case, no, he doesn't have Nas's narrative technique, or knack for meticulous detail, but his reputation as a flat-out poor lyricist is unfair.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:41 am 
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All fair points.....now lets listen to Nas rap about being inside his mother's womb:



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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:40 am 
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Like KD already said, I could give a fuck how he compares to other rappers, because he transcends the genre. I love his last two albums and look forward to the bizarre places he will go in the future.


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