ITT trag and Joey try to minimize the cultural significance of a prominent black artist while espousing the doctrine that true blackness follows one narrow sociopolitical path

Right, but reverse this. I might be speaking out of my ass, but what do Dark Side of the Moon, Appetite for Destruction, and Nevermind mean to black culture? They're probably recognized as important rock albums and cultural touchstones for white people, but I doubt they mean much beyond that. I'm not well-versed enough in the contemporaries of those albums, but I imagine that the greater collective of black culture has other landmarks that are more defining from the same time periods. That would render your point rather meaningless.

Also, if you don’t think that hip hop owns white suburban culture in the current decade, LOLLLLLLL

Holy shit, It’s like you guys didn’t even read the paragraph where I said MBDTF probably is the cultural touchstone for blacks that those other albums are for whites

MBDTF isn’t just significant to black people. Come on.

Excuse me?

Rolling Stone Album of the Year.
Spin Album of the Year.
Pitchfork Album of the Year.
Time Album of the Year.
Billboard Album of the Year.
The A.V. Club Album of the Year.
Pazz & Jop Album of the Year (by the largest margin of all time, breaking London Calling's 30 year old record).
Entertainment Weekly's #8 Album of All-Time.
NME's #21 Album of All-Time.
Pitchfork's #1 Album of the 10s So Far.
GQ Best Album of the 21st Century.

It's not a "black people" thing.

I already admitted my part in this discussion was limited and biased by meaningless personal experience. I also lauded Kanye's contribution to the culture. And now I'm going to say that some quick internet searching proves my experience with that record does not align at all with the cultural perception and LV might be right. Even Billboard has it as the #1 record of the decade. It's high (top 5) on every list I looked at. But please, LV, continue to attack me for shit I didn't say.

Exactly

To be fair it was mostly trag

If joe feels 1/10 of the frustration I felt around the Al Franken debacle, then this has all been worth it

And lv, I’m not suggesting at all that the album wasn’t incredibly significant for white people, only that it’s significance won’t endure as the years go on. Gotye once topped all the year-end lists too, you know?

Wait, haven't a lot of people on this board actually said the complete opposite?

That black people and REAL rap fans don't actually like Kanye.

-Middle-Aged Dude When Dark Side Came Out

I was working on rap sessions daily when MBDTF came out. They all LOVED it, yet none of them tried to ape its sounds.

Oddly, I can think of a few white artists I worked with who did try to ape its sounds.

Ok I can think of one black producer who tried to bite that vibe, but he was pitching songs to Eminem so...?

White people love speculating about black culture.

MBDTF is really important yeah, its so fucking good. DAMN too.

BUT

Are they really important or big outside the US like Appetite or Dark Side? I dont think so. Mainly because the mainstream attention of rap music at that size kinda happens in the us. Those acts cant tour big outside that market.

Trust me VG, you don’t want in on this debate

This is not a white/black thing, and it really isn't even a "cultural shifts" thing: Verb's original list -- "Dark Side," "Appetite," and "Nevermind" -- is, unless I'm misreading what he meant, really a subset of a larger list that also includes "Thriller," "Purple Rain," etc. What these records have in common is that they sold in excess of ten million copies, in eras where it was not only possible but common for very large numbers of people to experience singular pop culture phenomena in exactly the same way. The "cultural shifts" thing is not irrelevant -- there does need to be some sort of impact value for records like that to catch fire, even under optimal conditions -- but it's dubious, and I don't think Trag's timeline is correct on some of those things ("Dark Side," for instance, came out nearly a decade after Ken Kesey's acid tests and four years after Woodstock -- it did not usher in any kind of psychedelic "moment," it was just marketed very well retroactively).

Jorge's list of accolades for "MBDTF," a record every bit as strong, more so in many cases, than those on Verb's list of dinosaurs, is impressive, but by 2010 those accolades meant next to nothing to anyone beyond a very small faction of people who live to argue about such things on the internet. In previous eras, those accolades would have signified an impact on a much larger group of people.