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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:14 pm 
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Alex wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Maybe tree is just whipped

this, taken together with your mommy post, is pretty solid stuff.

Ain't no bitch gonna come between me and my momma

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:15 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Alex wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Maybe tree is just whipped

this, taken together with your mommy post, is pretty solid stuff.

Ain't no bitch gonna come between me and my momma

sounds like you have a pretty great mommy! or your mommy has you whipped

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:16 pm 
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I have a stepbrother who is dumb as a rock and married the first girl who would touch him, but she's a lunatic who forbid him from talking to his mom, and he hasn't since. Before that, they had no problems. What a dumbass.

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:17 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
I have a stepbrother who is dumb as a rock and married the first girl who would touch him, but she's a lunatic who forbid him from talking to his mom, and he hasn't since. Before that, they had no problems. What a dumbass.

doesn't sound like my situation.. things were actually worse between me and my family before i got with mine, at least from my perspective

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:22 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
So why did you hire your sister?

I didn't. We are both employed by the same huge state facility. She works down the hall from me. Also, to eradicate what remains of House Atreides.

How the f could you work with a female sibling and not be their superior? That’s crazy town

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:23 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
I have a stepbrother who is dumb as a rock and married the first girl who would touch him, but she's a lunatic who forbid him from talking to his mom, and he hasn't since. Before that, they had no problems. What a dumbass.

Do you talk with your bro

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:23 pm 
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you wanna know who has a loving, tight-knit family, overflowing with bountiful wealth?

TommyMtCom

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:24 pm 
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lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
I have a stepbrother who is dumb as a rock and married the first girl who would touch him, but she's a lunatic who forbid him from talking to his mom, and he hasn't since. Before that, they had no problems. What a dumbass.

Do you talk with your bro

That one? Nah, I've barely ever said more than 5 words to him. I don't participate in all that. Nice guy, though.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:33 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
Some of you might feel weird about reading this, or the act of me sharing it at all. I feel it's OK because of the anonymity of those involved. If you are uncomfortable, just stop reading! I think it might make me feel a little better to share it; I have struggled immensely with my entire family, particularly my mother and sister my entire life and I no longer have patience for their bullshit, but I don't know how else to approach these situations without completely blowing up on them. I no longer talk to my dad, but my mother and I have found a peaceful relationship the past year or so. I feel my judgment may be clouded, and could use your objective perspective. It's a text exchange between me and my sister. AITA, do you think?


Her: I did not have any bad intentions the day i asked if anyone seen u nor do I ever have bad intentions...there have been times where people just randomly ask if u r at work even if they don't need anything, it happens..I'm sorry u felt that way, guess since I was guilty of it once that's why ud think that (but u had said it did help things with u and mom)...anyway me and --(16 year old child, we'll call him "E")-- E would just like a relationship with u someday, but we can wait until your ready..love you and always will

Me: No ill will from me. I don't want drama. I live a full life with an hour drive to and from work 5 days a week, a relationship with and responsibilities to my wife and two young children. I do value my quiet time at work. If you need or want something from me, just ask and we can discuss it.

Her: Hey I've been talking to E about his bday and he just layed it all out, being real honest...this is not for DRAMA, it's just so u know what's going on, if u happen to care, are if u we're gonna come for his bday...this is E texting now - Ain't been in any of are life really or done anything(since you've been with Shear Bear) and since you've been with her you've been a whole another person, that I don't want anything to do with. The only person you really have anything to do with is mama (grandma) since she's raising your kids pretty much for you(I think it would be hard to deal with your wife and raise kids to so kinda understand that). If I think of anything else I'll let you know. My opinion and just being honest with you.

Me: You're right that I've been a different person. That's what happens when you fall in love and start a family. I will not take these insults. Grandma does not raise our kids for us. That is ridiculous. My wife read this message last night and it upset her quit a bit, not because it's true, but because you find a way to attack us time and time again when we are doing nothing wrong, and bring this ridiculous drama to our lives. It is best to keep this toxicity out of our lives as much as possible. You owe us an apology if you want any relationship at all with my family. I will be asking Mom to no longer take the boys to your house.

Her: None of that was from me it was from E. I wanted to let u know how he felt

Me: Well you should talk to him and correct him if you disagree with him. Not text it to me. He's a kid. I'm sorry I'm not in his life more but I have reached out several times in the past and he didn't reply, among other things, like drama and tension between you and me. Don't pretend this is all on me. This is a vicious cycle of tension and drama with you. I refuse to allow it in my life.

Her: Well E wanted to let you know how he felt since I brought up you coming for his bday...I didn't want him to send it like that but he pushed the button...it isn't like this is going to change anything u have had nothing to do with us anyway...u treated me like shit when I came to your office when all I had was good intentions

Me: S, just leave me alone. You are wildly confused and inappropriate.

Her: So you can text E about this,like I said I didn't want him to send it like that...I'm not confused at all lol..I'll b happy to leave u alone it's not like we have anything with u anyway

Me: I'm not texting him. If you keep texting me this drama I will block your number. He's your kid. You and his dad messed him up and confused him with all your drama and nonsense, not me. You need to take accountability and stop blaming others for your problems.

Her: (Laughing emoji)
Who am I blaming for my problems? U don't make any sense. I don't even have any problems

I proceed to block her number



Obviously there is a lot of history here left unexplained. Feel free to ask questions and I will do my best to answer objectively.




I'm really struggling to make sense of this so I can provide an opinion.
From what I'm reading, it sounds like this. Let me know if I'm getting it right.


Backstory:
- Tree has had a lifelong struggle with his family, specifically his mother, father, and sister.
- Tree has ceased communication with his father but has recently found peace with his mother.
- Relationship with his sister is strained but they see each other every once in a while and they work down the hall from each other.
- Tree's sister shows up at Tree's work to inquire on why Tree is upset at her... Tree doesn't react kindly to this.

Text exchange:
- Tree's sister apologizes for any misunderstanding, expresses no bad intentions, and conveys a desire for a future relationship with Tree, also mentioning her child, "E."
- Tree emphasizes a desire to avoid drama and outlines his busy life, including work and family responsibilities, indicating a preference for peace and direct communication.
- Tree's sister relays feelings from "E" about Tree's absence in their lives, criticizes Tree's change in behavior since starting a new family, and makes accusations about Tree's parenting. (If we take Tree's sister at her word that these messages are coming from "E.")

- Tree defends himself, acknowledging a personal change due to family priorities but rejecting the insults and accusations, particularly the claim about his grandmother raising his kids, and demands an apology for the toxic behavior (E's accusations?).
- Sister insists the harsh message was directly from "E"
- Tree argues the sister should have corrected "E" instead of forwarding his messages, acknowledges past attempts to connect with "E," and highlights ongoing drama and tension with the sister.
- Sister states "E" wanted to express his feelings, implies Tree's indifference has been longstanding, and recounts the incident at the office.
- Tree expresses frustration over his sister's behavior, refuses to engage with "E" through text, blames the sister and "E's" father for "E's" issues, and ultimately decides to block sister's number after she dismissively laughs off the criticism.


Is that right?

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:36 pm 
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Dump it into ChatGPT and ask it to pass judgment


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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:42 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
tree_ wrote:
Some of you might feel weird about reading this, or the act of me sharing it at all. I feel it's OK because of the anonymity of those involved. If you are uncomfortable, just stop reading! I think it might make me feel a little better to share it; I have struggled immensely with my entire family, particularly my mother and sister my entire life and I no longer have patience for their bullshit, but I don't know how else to approach these situations without completely blowing up on them. I no longer talk to my dad, but my mother and I have found a peaceful relationship the past year or so. I feel my judgment may be clouded, and could use your objective perspective. It's a text exchange between me and my sister. AITA, do you think?


Her: I did not have any bad intentions the day i asked if anyone seen u nor do I ever have bad intentions...there have been times where people just randomly ask if u r at work even if they don't need anything, it happens..I'm sorry u felt that way, guess since I was guilty of it once that's why ud think that (but u had said it did help things with u and mom)...anyway me and --(16 year old child, we'll call him "E")-- E would just like a relationship with u someday, but we can wait until your ready..love you and always will

Me: No ill will from me. I don't want drama. I live a full life with an hour drive to and from work 5 days a week, a relationship with and responsibilities to my wife and two young children. I do value my quiet time at work. If you need or want something from me, just ask and we can discuss it.

Her: Hey I've been talking to E about his bday and he just layed it all out, being real honest...this is not for DRAMA, it's just so u know what's going on, if u happen to care, are if u we're gonna come for his bday...this is E texting now - Ain't been in any of are life really or done anything(since you've been with Shear Bear) and since you've been with her you've been a whole another person, that I don't want anything to do with. The only person you really have anything to do with is mama (grandma) since she's raising your kids pretty much for you(I think it would be hard to deal with your wife and raise kids to so kinda understand that). If I think of anything else I'll let you know. My opinion and just being honest with you.

Me: You're right that I've been a different person. That's what happens when you fall in love and start a family. I will not take these insults. Grandma does not raise our kids for us. That is ridiculous. My wife read this message last night and it upset her quit a bit, not because it's true, but because you find a way to attack us time and time again when we are doing nothing wrong, and bring this ridiculous drama to our lives. It is best to keep this toxicity out of our lives as much as possible. You owe us an apology if you want any relationship at all with my family. I will be asking Mom to no longer take the boys to your house.

Her: None of that was from me it was from E. I wanted to let u know how he felt

Me: Well you should talk to him and correct him if you disagree with him. Not text it to me. He's a kid. I'm sorry I'm not in his life more but I have reached out several times in the past and he didn't reply, among other things, like drama and tension between you and me. Don't pretend this is all on me. This is a vicious cycle of tension and drama with you. I refuse to allow it in my life.

Her: Well E wanted to let you know how he felt since I brought up you coming for his bday...I didn't want him to send it like that but he pushed the button...it isn't like this is going to change anything u have had nothing to do with us anyway...u treated me like shit when I came to your office when all I had was good intentions

Me: S, just leave me alone. You are wildly confused and inappropriate.

Her: So you can text E about this,like I said I didn't want him to send it like that...I'm not confused at all lol..I'll b happy to leave u alone it's not like we have anything with u anyway

Me: I'm not texting him. If you keep texting me this drama I will block your number. He's your kid. You and his dad messed him up and confused him with all your drama and nonsense, not me. You need to take accountability and stop blaming others for your problems.

Her: (Laughing emoji)
Who am I blaming for my problems? U don't make any sense. I don't even have any problems

I proceed to block her number



Obviously there is a lot of history here left unexplained. Feel free to ask questions and I will do my best to answer objectively.




I'm really struggling to make sense of this so I can provide an opinion.
From what I'm reading, it sounds like this. Let me know if I'm getting it right.


Backstory:
- Tree has had a lifelong struggle with his family, specifically his mother, father, and sister.
- Tree has ceased communication with his father but has recently found peace with his mother.
- Relationship with his sister is strained but they see each other every once in a while and they work down the hall from each other.
- Tree's sister shows up at Tree's work to inquire on why Tree is upset at her... Tree doesn't react kindly to this.

Text exchange:
- Tree's sister apologizes for any misunderstanding, expresses no bad intentions, and conveys a desire for a future relationship with Tree, also mentioning her child, "E."
- Tree emphasizes a desire to avoid drama and outlines his busy life, including work and family responsibilities, indicating a preference for peace and direct communication.
- Tree's sister relays feelings from "E" about Tree's absence in their lives, criticizes Tree's change in behavior since starting a new family, and makes accusations about Tree's parenting. (If we take Tree's sister at her word that these messages are coming from "E.")

- Tree defends himself, acknowledging a personal change due to family priorities but rejecting the insults and accusations, particularly the claim about his grandmother raising his kids, and demands an apology for the toxic behavior (E's accusations?).
- Sister insists the harsh message was directly from "E"
- Tree argues the sister should have corrected "E" instead of forwarding his messages, acknowledges past attempts to connect with "E," and highlights ongoing drama and tension with the sister.
- Sister states "E" wanted to express his feelings, implies Tree's indifference has been longstanding, and recounts the incident at the office.
- Tree expresses frustration over his sister's behavior, refuses to engage with "E" through text, blames the sister and "E's" father for "E's" issues, and ultimately decides to block sister's number after she dismissively laughs off the criticism.


Is that right?

Wow. Yeah, I'd say that's a good summation.

Something to note, in the past and here, my sister not only doesn't correct her son when he is clearly out of line, she encourages him, and in the past when he has behaved poorly I would help parent in such instances and it was accepted as good help and guidance. There was a brief transitional time we were all living together with my mom, E, my sister and I, and I was a stand-in parental figure, his father being absent, I being very good with children and discipline, having worked with autistic children. He's not autistic, but it's good training.

There's no doubt in my mind she has encouraged him to feel the way he does about me and my wife. It's not that she allowed him to send me that kind of message, she wanted him to, in order to validate her own negative feelings.

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:47 pm 
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oh, I thought it was your mom, not your sister. i take back everything I said, and i’ll just replace it with: fuck your sister.

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:53 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Dump it into ChatGPT and ask it to pass judgment

just tried this and wow... better feedback than any of you could have ever provided

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:54 pm 
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I have two cousins that I try not to have direct contact with

One up and cut his family off after my uncles passing. they lived on the west coast so i was not around them all that much but just from talking to my aunt and having been around her more I cannot see a reason to cut her off like that. I realize there are always three sides to the story but i feel very comfortable taking her side


my other cousin married the first girl he was with and it was a shit show from the get go. i was friends with the girls brother and wife before my cousin met her. my cousin "knocked her up" in the first month of dating and wanted to tell the family the good news but at the time our grandfather had passed and they felt the timing was bad. my cousins dad ran a very tight ship and was very old school and always verbalized his opinion on any subject whether asked or not. when i had my ear pierced he made the comment he wouldnt allow that in his house and i just said well now i have a reason not to go over huh.

when my cousins uncle died they were pregnant with his "second" child. at this time he was a part-time police officer working for multiple departments in the area. now comes baby three a few years later and the rumors swirl that the first two were not his. he turns to the bottle and has some epic drunk blowups on facebook at 3am in the morning. High class drama i tell you. the divorce happens and he dotes on his youngest son who he is sure is his. he is still hitting the bottle and also hitting on the girl i was dating at the time. i laughed and asked her if should say something and she said nah, i'll handle it.

the drinking becomes a problem and he starts harassing a waitress at a bar and is kicked off the one force and just isnt given hours at the other. he spirals a bit more but appears to make a recovery. starts dating someone new as was I. once i broke up with her he started messaging her saying he wants to go out. i again ask if she wants me to say something but she declines.

turns out he also did this to one of our other cousins friends and was flat out called a creep for it. he spent some time in rehab that his sister paid for but again fell off the wagon and is looking to get into rehab again

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:55 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Dump it into ChatGPT and ask it to pass judgment

just tried this and wow... better feedback than any of you could have ever provided

i wouldn’t give up on RM’s advice just yet. Tommy still hasn’t chimed in.

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:57 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
I have a stepbrother who is dumb as a rock and married the first girl who would touch him, but she's a lunatic who forbid him from talking to his mom, and he hasn't since. Before that, they had no problems. What a dumbass.

Do you talk with your bro

That one? Nah, I've barely ever said more than 5 words to him. I don't participate in all that. Nice guy, though.

:haha:

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:57 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Dump it into ChatGPT and ask it to pass judgment

just tried this and wow... better feedback than any of you could have ever provided

Quote:
Tree's Sister:

Positive Aspects: Initially, she expresses a desire for a relationship with Tree and attempts to clarify her intentions regarding contacting him at work. Additionally, she tries to convey her son's feelings to Tree regarding his absence in their lives.
Negative Aspects: However, her actions become problematic when she forwards messages from her son containing insults and accusations without intervening or addressing them herself. She also appears dismissive of Tree's concerns and refuses to take responsibility for her part in the family tensions.
Tree:

Positive Aspects: Tree demonstrates a desire for peace and direct communication, as well as a commitment to his own family's well-being. He tries to address the issues raised by his sister and her son in a firm but constructive manner.
Negative Aspects: Tree's decision to block his sister's number may be seen as an attempt to avoid further conflict, but it could also be interpreted as a lack of willingness to engage in dialogue and resolve the underlying issues.
In this scenario, Tree's sister's actions, particularly in forwarding her son's hurtful messages without intervening or addressing them herself, seem morally more questionable. By allowing her son to communicate in a disrespectful manner and failing to take responsibility for her role in the family tensions, she perpetuates the cycle of conflict and drama. Tree, on the other hand, while expressing frustration and setting boundaries, attempts to address the issues in a more direct and constructive manner.

Ultimately, both characters could benefit from better communication and conflict resolution skills, as well as a willingness to take responsibility for their actions and work towards resolving family tensions in a healthier manner.


:shock:

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:58 pm 
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the truth always lies in the margins.

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 6:59 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
Jorge wrote:
tree_ wrote:
Some of you might feel weird about reading this, or the act of me sharing it at all. I feel it's OK because of the anonymity of those involved. If you are uncomfortable, just stop reading! I think it might make me feel a little better to share it; I have struggled immensely with my entire family, particularly my mother and sister my entire life and I no longer have patience for their bullshit, but I don't know how else to approach these situations without completely blowing up on them. I no longer talk to my dad, but my mother and I have found a peaceful relationship the past year or so. I feel my judgment may be clouded, and could use your objective perspective. It's a text exchange between me and my sister. AITA, do you think?


Her: I did not have any bad intentions the day i asked if anyone seen u nor do I ever have bad intentions...there have been times where people just randomly ask if u r at work even if they don't need anything, it happens..I'm sorry u felt that way, guess since I was guilty of it once that's why ud think that (but u had said it did help things with u and mom)...anyway me and --(16 year old child, we'll call him "E")-- E would just like a relationship with u someday, but we can wait until your ready..love you and always will

Me: No ill will from me. I don't want drama. I live a full life with an hour drive to and from work 5 days a week, a relationship with and responsibilities to my wife and two young children. I do value my quiet time at work. If you need or want something from me, just ask and we can discuss it.

Her: Hey I've been talking to E about his bday and he just layed it all out, being real honest...this is not for DRAMA, it's just so u know what's going on, if u happen to care, are if u we're gonna come for his bday...this is E texting now - Ain't been in any of are life really or done anything(since you've been with Shear Bear) and since you've been with her you've been a whole another person, that I don't want anything to do with. The only person you really have anything to do with is mama (grandma) since she's raising your kids pretty much for you(I think it would be hard to deal with your wife and raise kids to so kinda understand that). If I think of anything else I'll let you know. My opinion and just being honest with you.

Me: You're right that I've been a different person. That's what happens when you fall in love and start a family. I will not take these insults. Grandma does not raise our kids for us. That is ridiculous. My wife read this message last night and it upset her quit a bit, not because it's true, but because you find a way to attack us time and time again when we are doing nothing wrong, and bring this ridiculous drama to our lives. It is best to keep this toxicity out of our lives as much as possible. You owe us an apology if you want any relationship at all with my family. I will be asking Mom to no longer take the boys to your house.

Her: None of that was from me it was from E. I wanted to let u know how he felt

Me: Well you should talk to him and correct him if you disagree with him. Not text it to me. He's a kid. I'm sorry I'm not in his life more but I have reached out several times in the past and he didn't reply, among other things, like drama and tension between you and me. Don't pretend this is all on me. This is a vicious cycle of tension and drama with you. I refuse to allow it in my life.

Her: Well E wanted to let you know how he felt since I brought up you coming for his bday...I didn't want him to send it like that but he pushed the button...it isn't like this is going to change anything u have had nothing to do with us anyway...u treated me like shit when I came to your office when all I had was good intentions

Me: S, just leave me alone. You are wildly confused and inappropriate.

Her: So you can text E about this,like I said I didn't want him to send it like that...I'm not confused at all lol..I'll b happy to leave u alone it's not like we have anything with u anyway

Me: I'm not texting him. If you keep texting me this drama I will block your number. He's your kid. You and his dad messed him up and confused him with all your drama and nonsense, not me. You need to take accountability and stop blaming others for your problems.

Her: (Laughing emoji)
Who am I blaming for my problems? U don't make any sense. I don't even have any problems

I proceed to block her number



Obviously there is a lot of history here left unexplained. Feel free to ask questions and I will do my best to answer objectively.




I'm really struggling to make sense of this so I can provide an opinion.
From what I'm reading, it sounds like this. Let me know if I'm getting it right.


Backstory:
- Tree has had a lifelong struggle with his family, specifically his mother, father, and sister.
- Tree has ceased communication with his father but has recently found peace with his mother.
- Relationship with his sister is strained but they see each other every once in a while and they work down the hall from each other.
- Tree's sister shows up at Tree's work to inquire on why Tree is upset at her... Tree doesn't react kindly to this.

Text exchange:
- Tree's sister apologizes for any misunderstanding, expresses no bad intentions, and conveys a desire for a future relationship with Tree, also mentioning her child, "E."
- Tree emphasizes a desire to avoid drama and outlines his busy life, including work and family responsibilities, indicating a preference for peace and direct communication.
- Tree's sister relays feelings from "E" about Tree's absence in their lives, criticizes Tree's change in behavior since starting a new family, and makes accusations about Tree's parenting. (If we take Tree's sister at her word that these messages are coming from "E.")

- Tree defends himself, acknowledging a personal change due to family priorities but rejecting the insults and accusations, particularly the claim about his grandmother raising his kids, and demands an apology for the toxic behavior (E's accusations?).
- Sister insists the harsh message was directly from "E"
- Tree argues the sister should have corrected "E" instead of forwarding his messages, acknowledges past attempts to connect with "E," and highlights ongoing drama and tension with the sister.
- Sister states "E" wanted to express his feelings, implies Tree's indifference has been longstanding, and recounts the incident at the office.
- Tree expresses frustration over his sister's behavior, refuses to engage with "E" through text, blames the sister and "E's" father for "E's" issues, and ultimately decides to block sister's number after she dismissively laughs off the criticism.


Is that right?

Wow. Yeah, I'd say that's a good summation.

Something to note, in the past and here, my sister not only doesn't correct her son when he is clearly out of line, she encourages him, and in the past when he has behaved poorly I would help parent in such instances and it was accepted as good help and guidance. There was a brief transitional time we were all living together with my mom, E, my sister and I, and I was a stand-in parental figure, his father being absent, I being very good with children and discipline, having worked with autistic children. He's not autistic, but it's good training.

There's no doubt in my mind she has encouraged him to feel the way he does about me and my wife. It's not that she allowed him to send me that kind of message, she wanted him to, in order to validate her own negative feelings.

Take that, Jorge!

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 Post subject: Re: RM Court - AITA
PostPosted: Wed March 13, 2024 7:01 pm 
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Is this going to end with trees wife brutality assaulting some teenage boys again?

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