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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Time to see what the fate of the ADA is.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 4:58 pm 
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I didn't know the American Dental Association was under attack. Probably from the anti-floss lobby, yeah?

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Americans with disabilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Thank you, captain. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Passed the House ☹️

Here’s what HR 620 does:

- It requires people with disabilities to provide a business with written notice before filing any complaint about an ADA compliance violation.

- It grants the business 60 days to *acknowledge* the complaint. Not respond to, not defend or address…just acknowledge. There’s a 60 day window, before the filing and the wait period and before any investigation or debate…just for saying “yeah I saw the email.”

- It removes the time requirement for addressing the access issue, and in doing so removes the disabled person’s right to sue. Businesses only have to show “progress” on addressing the issue. Progress as a legal term is undefined by the bill (so it can mean almost anything).

- It orders that alternative mediation be tested as a way to reduce court appearances due to ADA noncompliance. In other words, the disabled person waits months or years, then their complaint goes into mandatory arbitration, with no ongoing fees or danger to the business.

Look at this language: “Develop a model program to promote the use of alternative dispute resolution mechanisms, including a stay of discovery during mediation, to resolve claims of architectural barriers to access for public accommodations.” All advantages are on the side of the property or establishment creating the access problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 6:24 pm 
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So what you're saying is the old people in mobility scooters are screwed.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 6:28 pm 
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bune wrote:
So what you're saying is the old people in mobility scooters are screwed.

And wounded veterans. And kids with spina bifida. And car accident survivors. And group care organizations in rural areas, which often rely on single rental locations spread across a county.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 6:35 pm 
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They're already hosed, I wanted to be sure that the idiots who voted for Trump will be harmed as well. I wonder if they'll notice, or if it'll just be Obama's fault somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Republicans have been screwing over the physically and mentally handicapped for years. It's just so gross.


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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Monkey_Driven wrote:
Republicans have been screwing over the physically and mentally handicapped for years. It's just so gross.


It's a major overreaction to this type of thing:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-americans-with-disabilities-act-lawsuits-anderson-cooper/

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:
Republicans have been screwing over the physically and mentally handicapped for years. It's just so gross.


It's a major overreaction to this type of thing:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-americans-with-disabilities-act-lawsuits-anderson-cooper/


I'm sure there's merit to that small business owner and other's claims, but still. C'mon man.


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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Yep. It cracks down on lawsuits, but ignores that there is no active ADA compliance monitoring to take the place of said lawsuits. Today, infractions are almost exclusively exposed through affected individuals’ legal efforts. Tomorrow, they may not be exposed at all.

This absence of oversight, by the way, is part of what brought us to the land of “drive-by” lawsuits. Several of the “worst” offenders (ie the literally 12 individuals/groups who have filed a hundred lawsuits or more) are actually disabled rights advocacy groups.

There is no independent body charged with inspecting, monitoring, fining, or enforcing ADA compliance. Read that again. When my brother, who has spina bifida, was told by his landlord that his apartment was going to have to be closed as part of a building renovation, and that his only option for a place to stay (for 8 months) was an apartment accessed by stairs and with hallways (and a bathroom) too narrow for his wheelchair, the threat of a lawsuit was enough for them to offer to compensate him, provide him with temporary housing, and allow him to break his lease.

It took that threat for him to get anything other than the initial “tough shit, pay the rent and figure it out for your fucking self.” In the future, with the lawsuit threat diminished and no enforcement to replace it, why would any landlord offer that compensation? Or anything?

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Thu February 15, 2018 9:33 pm 
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We have a disabled person working here, in a Federal building, and there is no ADA requirement for us to put those automatic doors in. Instead, he has to open and close these heavy-ass solid wood doors by himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Fri February 16, 2018 11:56 am 
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bune wrote:
We have a disabled person working here, in a Federal building, and there is no ADA requirement for us to put those automatic doors in. Instead, he has to open and close these heavy-ass solid wood doors by himself.

Wait, is this true??? They exempted themselves from that law?

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Fri February 16, 2018 3:03 pm 
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One of my peeves is people who electronically open those doors when there is no reason they can't simply push/pull the door open themselves. I swear, one day I'm going to ask someone if they are really that fucking lazy.


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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Fri February 16, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Biff Pocoroba wrote:
One of my peeves is people who electronically open those doors when there is no reason they can't simply push/pull the door open themselves. I swear, one day I'm going to ask someone if they are really that fucking lazy.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Fri February 16, 2018 4:19 pm 
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When I brought it up to the people who were responsible for putting us in here, they said they researched it and there was no mandatory requirement.

Here:
Quote:
Automatic and Power-Assisted Doors and Gates [§404.3]Label: “Automatic Door – Caution”
Doors are not required to be automated, but must comply when provided. The Standards apply industry Standards developed under protocols of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and published by the Builders Hardware Manufacturers Association (BHMA). The ANSI/BHMA Standards address operating characteristics, including opening speed, safety features, sensors and activation devices, and labeling, among others. Doors are classified by their type or level of automation.


Quote:
Is automation of doors required?

Automation of doors is not required by the Standards, but it is highly recommended for entrance doors where the opening force is significant. A maximum opening force is not specified for exterior hinged doors because of the closing force typically necessary for ensuring positive latch against wind loading, air pressure, and other conditions. This often results in opening forces well above the 5 lbf maximum. Difficulty opening exterior swing doors is a common complaint. Automation offers the best solution. Otherwise, closers should be set with the minimum force practicable.


https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines ... -and-gates

I just started watching The IT Crowd with my son. He loved the first episode, though my wife was less than impressed. At least he has my sense of humor!

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Fri February 16, 2018 4:24 pm 
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So it sounds like isn't a federal exemption, it's that that isn't specifically something the ADA mandated. In which case, that would be true for state and local governmental buildings, too. If that's the case I feel slightly better--not that there's a loophole/missing piece--but that at least it wasn't an example of the federal government forcing state and local governments to do something they didn't have to do as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Sun February 18, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Maybe a little too honest

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 Post subject: Re: Congress
PostPosted: Sun February 18, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Maybe a little too honest

Now THAT’s funny


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