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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 3:24 am 
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the notion of BTC as a 'gold disruptor' is kind of interesting

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 5:29 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:

How do you collect taxes when a completely anonymous, untraceable currency can be transported all over the world, nearly instant and free, and can't be shut down?



Is there a problem here? (except for the transaction speed limitation on Bitcoin, that is)


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 8:35 am 
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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 8:37 am 
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this has consumed you, Burt

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 8:41 am 
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Kaius wrote:
this has consumed you, Burt

I've been watching lines go up and down all day, and it is enthralling.

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Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 2:16 pm 
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96583UP wrote:
the notion of tulip bulbs as a 'gold disruptor' is kind of interesting

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I really hope we get this figured out soon


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Hey burt, buy me some dark web drugs.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Sun December 10, 2017 11:35 pm 
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so with these bitcoin ATMs - do you have to even put in your address or anything?

i have never seen / used one

but it dawned on me that in terms of money laundering - if you were a drug dealer with tons of cash - you could take it to a bitcoin ATM and directly convert it to bitcoin

no AML / KYC process

no oversight

that's very scary

normally a drug dealer gets caught at the bank when they start making regular odd, just- sub-$10,000 deposits

bitcoin could be making millionaires our of opioid-selling thousandaires

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 12:20 am 
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Jammer XCI wrote:
Hey burt, buy me some dark web drugs.

Welcome to the free market, my friend. Right this way...

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daft twat wrote:
Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 12:24 am 
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96583UP wrote:
so with these bitcoin ATMs - do you have to even put in your address or anything?

i have never seen / used one

but it dawned on me that in terms of money laundering - if you were a drug dealer with tons of cash - you could take it to a bitcoin ATM and directly convert it to bitcoin

no AML / KYC process

no oversight

that's very scary

normally a drug dealer gets caught at the bank when they start making regular odd, just- sub-$10,000 deposits

bitcoin could be making millionaires our of opioid-selling thousandaires

I think finding criminals through money tracking is going to get very difficult. Of course, given who governments often consider criminals, I don't view this as a negative.

Not sure about atms though. I'm about to check one out right now.

You could just buy them person to person from localbitcoins.com too. I don't think it requires much verification.

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daft twat wrote:
Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


Last edited by BurtReynolds on Mon December 11, 2017 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 12:25 am 
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The CBOE futures website crashed almost instantly and btc shot up another thousand dollars (then settled a bit).

Welcome to crypto, white collars.

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Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 12:40 am 
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the website crashing might be the least-worst thing that goes wrong for this thing

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 1:10 am 
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I don't understand much about them. They don't make much sense to me. They only operate Monday through Friday, and freeze when the market moves 20%? That's quiet day in currency land.

The big CME one is next week. That will be interesting.

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Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 1:14 am 
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Doh, the ATM was out of order. It did have a passport scanner on it though, so I guess it requires ID.

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daft twat wrote:
Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 1:23 am 
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so it's biased against black voters?

:P

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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 3:01 am 
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daft twat wrote:
Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 4:45 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
96583UP wrote:
so with these bitcoin ATMs - do you have to even put in your address or anything?

i have never seen / used one

but it dawned on me that in terms of money laundering - if you were a drug dealer with tons of cash - you could take it to a bitcoin ATM and directly convert it to bitcoin

no AML / KYC process

no oversight

that's very scary

normally a drug dealer gets caught at the bank when they start making regular odd, just- sub-$10,000 deposits

bitcoin could be making millionaires our of opioid-selling thousandaires

I don't view this as a negative.


Agreed.

Some number of pot farmers in Northern California lost more than their crops because while their product is not illegal at the state level, they can't use banks and probably had a lot of cash that got burned. If they had those assets in BTC, they could more readily transport and use those assets.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 7:49 am 
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Tulip mania, which apparently never really happened , is brought up a lot, but I thought this was a good reddit post

Quote:
I'm an economist and I've been been following Bitcoin for quite some time now. What I've always found the most entertaining property of cryptocurrency is how it exposes the massive economic illiteracy among the so-called financial journalists and, indeed, a large portion of the financial elite and even quite a few prominent economists (Joseph Stiglitz, to name one).
Having said that, I want to arm my fellow Bitcoin users with a small amount of knowledge that should be enough to knock out the most widely held objection to cryptocurrency's value that you would encounter from your families, friends and acquaintances: the idea that money needs to be 'backed' by something, whether it's a financial institution, an army or just plain belief in it. The simple fact is that this isn't true now, has never been true, and will never be true.
Money is valuable because it is the simplest, most efficient and most effective way of signalling economic data across large groups of people. A currency, the manifestation of money, is valuable when it does a good job of transferring the aforementioned data by being:
1) easy to use and understand by everyone
2) tamperproof such that it resists corruption of the original signal
3) neglegible in overhead costs
Cryptocurrency is a happy marriage of information technology improving n°1 and distributed cryptology improving n°2, while SegWit and Lightning continue to improve on n°3. Put simply, in terms most educated people can understand: Bitcoin has value because it is better at acting as an information carrier for economic data than any traditional currency. It protects signal integrity to a degree that no other currency type can. This is why cryptocurrency is so valuable, and why it will continue to soar until all fiat currency has collapsed around it.
Good money, in short, is all about reliably transferring economic preferences. It has sod all to with 'backing', 'trust', government 'protection', 'sound' fiscal policy or any of the other racketeering schemes that powerful groups have been using to take the data signalled by ordinary people and corrupt it into something that benefits only the elites.
Any time a journalist or so-called expert objects to cryptocurrency because it's not 'backed' by any of the above, they betray their ignorance, their illiteracy and their complete blindness to the revolution that's happening right under their feet and which will, in time, bring down the corrupt power structures of our world to create a freer, fairer society for all of us.

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Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 12:59 pm 
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*summons thodoks*


So I think that might be wrong... but... I'm not sure how to word a response. I would first suggest the conflation between bitcoin itself and blockchain technology is an issue. For example there is nothing stopping the EU from criminalizing bitcoin transactions and making EUcoin based on the technology. Secondly, I would propose that the stated definition of money is incomplete as money is also a tokenized means of transferring time-value between two parties and both parties must be able to utilize that token's value for their own wants/needs. Price =! value. If not tulip bulbs, then think of beanie babies. For a section of the population the accumulation and exchange of Beanies had some "value", but they were not readily traded for food/shelter/clothing, and it was really just the limited supply and movement of the Beanies between desiring buyers that drove their price (like concert tickets). This is where the power of government backing comes in because it's the government's guns that mandate "the dollar" be the official store of value that is used in all exchanges... which is different than the concept of backing described above. Thirdly, the limited supply means that hoarding could be an issue.

that's not to say that there aren't going to be a ton of millionaires coming out of bitcoin... I would just not count on that to be a long term solution to fiat currency issues.

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I really hope we get this figured out soon


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 Post subject: Re: bitcoin, the blockchain, and cryptocurrency
PostPosted: Mon December 11, 2017 2:34 pm 
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I'm trying to think what a government coin would be like. It seems that it would be pointless to have it on a blockchain if its just going to be controlled by banks or government institutions. Who else is going to mine or stake it? It wouldn't be immutable or trustless, and they probably wouldn't want the public knowing where the money is flowing on a public ledger. Seems like it would just be the same digital money we have now.

I think with Bitcoin in particular, the conversation seems to be moving away from it being a currency and more to a store of wealth. In that respect governments probably wouldn't care as much, and it's superior to gold in my opinion. It's easier to store, transport, can't be confiscated, and is deflationary. It's only going to be more valuable over time. I think people are getting hung up on it being used for every day transactions, but why would anyone use it for that when it becomes so valuable? Other coins like Litecoin might be used for every day transactions instead.

As it gets easier to use and more people (and rich people in particular) get more familiar with it, the ability for governments to clamp down on it will become limited. It will already take a coordinated worldwide effort, and its only going to get harder for them.

Once its as easy and widespread as illegally downloading movies, it's game over. And if moving it in and out of government backed currency becomes easy, then for all intents and purposes both parties in a transaction will be able to utilize it for their needs. It basically already is.

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daft twat wrote:
Saw Coal Chamber 3 or 4 times by accident.


Last edited by BurtReynolds on Mon December 11, 2017 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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