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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sat February 05, 2022 11:32 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
Like, for instance, what Burt's talking about--the critique of the scientific or empiricist model of knowledge. That *is* being critiqued (and it should be!), it's been critiqued for decades, but that critique is being made by sociologists like Bruno Latour or political scientists like Sylvia Wynter, neither of whom reside(d) in capital-P Philosophy departments.


I agree with the responses, and I know this stuff is out there (I've stumbled upon some good stuff). I don't think any rational person actually wants to live in a pre-science world, I just wonder if a world without all those answers focuses the good minds into these existential questions. No doubt there are great minds out there today trying to sift through all this stuff, but it kind of gets lost in the weeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sun February 06, 2022 4:58 am 
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I can relate. Just gotta hang in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sat February 19, 2022 2:42 pm 
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Nietzsche's Amor Fati isn't merely some claim that you should learn to love your life no matter how much it sucks. That would be ridiculous. It's a warning that your life better be the type that you can love, or else you will suffer for eternity (due to Eternal Recurrence of the Same.

It demands a course of action that is so absolute that not even suicide is an escape (since we will be here again, reliving the same life over and over again forever.)

You have to make this life worthy of being loved, one way or the other. You have to live in such a way that justifies all the suffering of the past. If you can't - and many can't - you're fucked.

Spoiler: show
Amor fati is a Latin phrase that may be translated as "love of fate" or "love of one's fate". It is used to describe an attitude in which one sees everything that happens in one's life, including suffering and loss, as good or, at the very least, necessary.

Amor fati is often associated with what Friedrich Nietzsche called "eternal recurrence", the idea that, over an infinite period of time, everything recurs infinitely. From this he developed a desire to be willing to live exactly the same life over and over for all eternity ("...long for nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal”).

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sat February 19, 2022 3:34 pm 
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Uh huh, cool

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its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sat February 19, 2022 4:51 pm 
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"Any law with a fine is a price."
Never heard that before. That's good.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sat February 19, 2022 8:03 pm 
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don't care if it's real or not, it's hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sun February 20, 2022 3:10 pm 
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Quote:
Public propagandists of Science today uncritically accept the naïve epistemological “realism” of positivism under the false assumption that Science conquered metaphysics and formal logic obsoleted classical logic sometime in the 19th century, but the details of this elude them. The “Scientific Method” as it’s taught today is in no real sense actual Science. It’s merely an algorithm. It doesn’t represent the “Practical” compliment to any Philosophy or Theory of Science. It’s a brute force, unintelligent adherence to an algorithm of knowledge manufacture. The constant appeal to “interdisciplinary” ideals has not produced any meaningful reform of Science, as there exists no mechanism to enforce this ideal.

Kant was clear though as to what body was entitled to enforce such standards: the academic Philosophy faculty. In “Contest of the Faculties” Kant compares the University to a factory. The “higher” faculties of Law, Medicine, and Theology train and govern public officials and therefore are subject to Government overview. It’s the autonomous “lower” faculty of philosophy that governs truth. As we see with Covid (and many other examples), the professional scientist today is not in the business of Truth, but is a public official bound by political duty and the social good. The sermons of the popular scientist serve a public function and are subject to State regulation. The body of such intellectuals constitutes a community of public intellectuals, whose training comes from the University’s scientific faculties, which professionally govern the members of this community via credentialing according to ideological constraints imposed by the State “The reason why the Philosophy faculty, despite its great prerogative (freedom), is called “Lower” lies in human nature; for someone who can give commands, even though he is another’s servant, is considered more distinguished than someone free who has no one under his command.”

The Philosophy faculty has as its unique purpose: the intellectual regulation of the publicly concerned faculties vis-à-vis the actual Scientific Truth of their teachings. It is precisely its “lower” status that provides it the autonomy necessary to carrying out this role. Kant is especially concerned with the danger of public intellectuals trained by the higher faculties to degenerate into charlatans and lackeys of the State, while also recognizing that the academic discourse of philosophical critique is not suitable for a general public audience. Thus he distinguishes between “publics,” the general public, which is liable to misunderstand or be confused by finer academic discourse; and the public of intellectuals and experts trained by the Academy. The higher faculties serve the former, the lower one serves the latter. In this way the general public is insulated from the academic discourse with which the philosophy faculty scientifically regulates the truth of the higher faculty's teachings, while the generally public discourse of the intelligentsia is preserved from ideological corruption. The lower faculty for Kant comprises history, geography, philology the humanities, mathematics, metaphysics, logic, etc. It’s here that the grounding principles of science are vouchsafed, such as the fundamental unity and systemicity of knowledge, which is Rational and Historical.

It must be recognized that Kant’s conception of this academic organization was instrumental in the development of the institutional philosophy of the University or Berlin, as outlined by Wilhelm von Humboldt, Fichte, and Friedrich Schleiermacher not long after Kant’s death. This entire conception of the role of philosophy vis-à-vis the rest of the university ultimately became the core of the Neo-Kantian academic consensus which came to dominate not only at Berlin, but at Marburg, Strasbourg, Heidelberg, and Göttingen between 1860 and 1914 This system was the immediate academic context grounding such scholars as Hermann von Helmholtz, Hermann Cohen, Ernst Cassirer, Wilhelm Windelband, Heinrich Rickert, Emil Lask, Max Weber, David Hilbert, Max Planck, Edmund Husserl, Martin Heidegger, Hannah Arendt, György Lukács…
America had almost no advanced degree programs before 1860. Most American scholars did their graduate studies in Germany. Johns Hopkins, the University of Chicago, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley were all founded to rectify this, and all followed Neo-Kantian Institutional models It’s during precisely this period that modern propagandists of Science claim the algorithmic “scientific method,” naïve positivist epistemology, and formal logic supplanted philosophy and rendered it obsolete. Would Frege, Helmholtz, Hilbert, Planck, or von Neumann have agreed?

The propagandists of science who gesture towards this triumph of algorithmic knowledge accumulation over philosophy have, as Kant feared, lapsed into charlatanry, and now claim their ideologically constrained public function as experts is identical to the pursuit of truth itself. Their status as "experts," their public function, their intellectual subservience to the State, and their ideological duty to the social good however remains incompatible and, at times, even contrary to a disinterested commitment to Truth beyond any immediate professional concern This fact is rather apparent from the very nature of publicness. The truth is determined by an algorithmic consensus generation among a professional caste of State regulated public functionaries. It is only under a purely utilitarian standard that this consensus is called "truth." In this way "science" has ungrounded itself from its own genuine metaphysical basis. What is true has become completely contingent and subject to the State's dictates regarding the momentary public interest. The scientist thus becomes professionally motivated to repudiate truth.

With no oversight of science itself provided by the "lower" faculty of philosophy, each field is allowed to go its own way, and no specific branch of science has as its object knowledge in general, or science as a whole any longer. Consequently the unity of knowledge is destroyed. There is no "elite overproduction," the fragmentation of the academy and the endless professional expansion of the intellectual class represents the collapsing of the two levels of "public" which Kant previously distinguished between, and the conflation of their discourse This is nothing more than a manifestation of the general collapse of public utility and truth which the propagandists of science claim occurred around the turn of the twentieth century, with the victory of positivism and formal logic and science over metaphysics and philosophy.

Did this transformation though actually ever happen? Certainly in the propagandistic narratives of science and expertise, the historicity of the claimed succession is beyond dispute. Yet many histories of logic, and philosophies of science, and sociologies of knowledge disagree. The truly cunning maneuver here is that the public scientific-expert caste is not bound to subject itself to the historical and metaphysical critiques issued against it from the "lower" faculty any longer. Thus "Science" can, via a circular argument, avoid accountability forever.

When one investigates the supposed historical rupture at stake more deeply, however, one begins to develop the unmistakable and troubling impression that for Hilbert, Planck, Gödel, and many others, issues dating back to the time of Leibniz were growing intractable and urgent. These figures are, by the propagandists, mutated into champions of the historical transformation of Science during that era. Harbingers of positivism, nihilism, the scientific method. Their heroism and epic stature is earned through their alleged role in defeating philosophy. This is contrary to their actual dignity as thinkers. Their titanic reputations and glorious deeds were in service of truth, not "science" so conceived by the propagandists and experts today. Their heroism consisted in their tragic struggle to confront the crisis science faced. The supremacy claimed by the propagandists of science today rests not on "truth," as something beyond history and social necessity -- it is, in fact, precisely that kind of truth which "science" *destroyed* -- but rather upon our historical understanding of that specific moment.

Food for thought, I suppose

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Thu March 17, 2022 1:58 pm 
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I've rejected glasses. Glasses don't help you see better. They prevent you from seeing how things blend together at the edges, becoming one. They replace reality with strictly delineated and false forms, constrained by language. Any fool can see that gla—*walks into a sign*

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Thu March 24, 2022 6:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed March 30, 2022 12:48 am 
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For no reason

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed March 30, 2022 1:02 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Nietzsche's Amor Fati isn't merely some claim that you should learn to love your life no matter how much it sucks. That would be ridiculous. It's a warning that your life better be the type that you can love, or else you will suffer for eternity (due to Eternal Recurrence of the Same.

It demands a course of action that is so absolute that not even suicide is an escape (since we will be here again, reliving the same life over and over again forever.)

You have to make this life worthy of being loved, one way or the other. You have to live in such a way that justifies all the suffering of the past. If you can't - and many can't - you're fucked.

Spoiler: show
Amor fati is a Latin phrase that may be translated as "love of fate" or "love of one's fate". It is used to describe an attitude in which one sees everything that happens in one's life, including suffering and loss, as good or, at the very least, necessary.

Amor fati is often associated with what Friedrich Nietzsche called "eternal recurrence", the idea that, over an infinite period of time, everything recurs infinitely. From this he developed a desire to be willing to live exactly the same life over and over for all eternity ("...long for nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal”).

This reminds me of a question I once asked in the Ask RM thread. viewtopic.php?p=1663789#p1663789

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed March 30, 2022 3:04 am 
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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
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The Argonaut wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Nietzsche's Amor Fati isn't merely some claim that you should learn to love your life no matter how much it sucks. That would be ridiculous. It's a warning that your life better be the type that you can love, or else you will suffer for eternity (due to Eternal Recurrence of the Same.

It demands a course of action that is so absolute that not even suicide is an escape (since we will be here again, reliving the same life over and over again forever.)

You have to make this life worthy of being loved, one way or the other. You have to live in such a way that justifies all the suffering of the past. If you can't - and many can't - you're fucked.

Spoiler: show
Amor fati is a Latin phrase that may be translated as "love of fate" or "love of one's fate". It is used to describe an attitude in which one sees everything that happens in one's life, including suffering and loss, as good or, at the very least, necessary.

Amor fati is often associated with what Friedrich Nietzsche called "eternal recurrence", the idea that, over an infinite period of time, everything recurs infinitely. From this he developed a desire to be willing to live exactly the same life over and over for all eternity ("...long for nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal”).

This reminds me of a question I once asked in the Ask RM thread. viewtopic.php?p=1663789#p1663789

Which would you pick?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed March 30, 2022 3:13 am 
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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
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If you're gonna be an atheist. Be an Atheist! These modern secular humanists are the worst!

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Thu March 31, 2022 3:58 am 
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Philosophy majors get so mad when you start doing philosophy for yourself. They be like "What?! You can't do that! Philosophy is just reading books until you die!" Absolutely read-to-death automatons. :haha:

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Tue April 05, 2022 2:58 am 
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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
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This guy gets it. Everyone else is playing smallball.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Tue April 05, 2022 3:10 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
This guy gets it. Everyone else is playing smallball.



Uncle Ted has cancer. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed April 06, 2022 10:00 pm 
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you have to overcome the friend/foe filter before you can ever expect to engage as a disembodied, cerebral being with meatbag power supplies

simple as, really


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Wed April 06, 2022 10:04 pm 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
This guy gets it. Everyone else is playing smallball.



Uncle Ted has cancer. :(

tell me all your thoughts on oversocialization here, in this thread


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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sun April 10, 2022 9:03 pm 
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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
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Can anyone define "post-left" for me? The only definition I know is apparently an older definition that has nothing to do with whatever people are calling "post left" these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedantic Struggles: The All Encompassing Philosophy Thre
PostPosted: Sun April 10, 2022 11:17 pm 
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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
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When some doofus confuses the collection of identity traits/phenomenal self - only known in reflection - with the pre-conceptual, noumenal, unique self that is presupposed in the experiencing of the former:


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