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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
In 2009, I joined my dad and uncle for a family reunion in Placerville, ID, where my great-grandfather had homesteaded and raised six children. Those kids started all their own families, and they are scattered around the western part of the country. Though I had been going to Placerville all my life, I had never met this one faction of my cousins. Anyway, on the day of the reunion, my cousin and her family drive in from northern Idaho, and she is married to a guy with a swastika tattoo. It was obviously very upsetting to everyone who was there, but we just played nice for a few hours: Ate hot dogs, drank beer, couldn't wait for them to leave...

Curious to hear others' thoughts or experiences with these sorts of people.
Can you remind me on how long have you lived in the West? I may have some things to contribute but I want to get an idea of how much you already may know.

Have been visiting Idaho (mostly Placerville, Boise, McCall, Sand Point) all my life; have probably visited the state 8 or 9 times now, and then I drive through Coeur d'Alene several times a year on my way to Seattle.

Lived in Olympia, WA for six months, and then Portland, OR for four years. Was somewhat in the punk scene in Portland and came across some skin heads on a few occasions (saw one skinhead slice another from waist to neck with a piece of broken glass one time). Moved back to the East Coast from 2005-2015. Have been living in MT for about 2 years now.
OK, what I was going to bring up was the presence of the Aryan Nations in Hayden back in the 90s. Since Self is curious in general I'll just post the Wikipedia article on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nations

They were never a very sizeable group (always many, many more counterprotestors when they marched), but it was still scary, my brother in law will occasionally tell some fucked up stories about them. As the article explains, they eventually got sued out of existence there.

Also, and not totally related to this subject, but northern Idaho, which used to be a fairly labor-left leaning region due to mining, timber & manufacturing unions, took a hard right turn in the 90s when conservative Californians fled all the "chaos" that was going on there then. The most famous emigrant? Mark Fuhrman. That influx sent Idaho as a whole as one of the most Republican in the nation. Boise's recent turn leftward may subside that somewhat in the future, though.


Followup question GH: Do you think there's any sort of "sleeper cell" hate groups in or around Boise? People who were raised in the Hayden Lake doctrine and have been left without a leader? Do they just sort of grumble and tolerate the influx of refugees into Boise, or do you have any sense of a more vocal opposition?

I'm really interested in the Chobani facility in Twin Falls, ID. Obviously this is much further south, but with such a huge portion of their employees being immigrants and refugees, I feel like there must be some sort of dust-up brewing...


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:07 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Followup question GH: Do you think there's any sort of "sleeper cell" hate groups in or around Boise? People who were raised in the Hayden Lake doctrine and have been left without a leader? Do they just sort of grumble and tolerate the influx of refugees into Boise, or do you have any sense of a more vocal opposition?

I'm really interested in the Chobani facility in Twin Falls, ID. Obviously this is much further south, but with such a huge portion of their employees being immigrants and refugees, I feel like there must be some sort of dust-up brewing...
Nothing on the scale of Hayden Lake, though you can never discount smaller closet hate groups in any part of the nation. I actually feel that Boise has been lucky enough so far to avoid most of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Followup question GH: Do you think there's any sort of "sleeper cell" hate groups in or around Boise? People who were raised in the Hayden Lake doctrine and have been left without a leader? Do they just sort of grumble and tolerate the influx of refugees into Boise, or do you have any sense of a more vocal opposition?

I'm really interested in the Chobani facility in Twin Falls, ID. Obviously this is much further south, but with such a huge portion of their employees being immigrants and refugees, I feel like there must be some sort of dust-up brewing...
Nothing on the scale of Hayden Lake, though you can never discount smaller closet hate groups in any part of the nation. I actually feel that Boise has been lucky enough so far to avoid most of this.

As long as the coming race war doesn't bring damage to Guru Donuts, then Boise will always be a place worth visiting.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:22 pm 
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Being from very rural Mississippi, I know a lot of racists around, but there isn't any organization or movement to it (in contrast to some shitty John Grisham movie or something that makes it sound like there is a klansman around every corner.) I've seen one klan group in my entire life, when I was like 5, and I don't think they were from around there.

I gather it's different in the west, but I haven't seen anything like that in western Oregon and Washington, so I can't speak to that. I see the occasional confederate flag (ah, my people! I'm getting homesick...), but that's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:27 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Being from very rural Mississippi, I know a lot of racists around, but there isn't any organization or movement to it (in contrast to some shitty John Grisham movie or something that makes it sound like there is a klansman around every corner.) I've seen one klan group in my entire life, when I was like 5, and I don't think they were from around there.

I gather it's different in the west, but I haven't seen anything like that in western Oregon and Washington, so I can't speak to that. I see the occasional confederate flag (ah, my people! I'm getting homesick...), but that's about it.

I'm super interested about the Oregon hate groups. The guys who lived across the street from me when I lived in SE Portland were definitely skin heads, and they were always blasting punk music. In retrospect, I'm wondering if they were affiliated with Volksfront or maybe Hammerskin (a white supremacy punk rock label).

PDX has a long and nasty history of racism and segregation. Some of the city parks still have statues or plaques that indicate "whites only." And it's one of those cities with a million different sub-neighborhoods and subcultures; who knows what goes on beyond Powell and 81st, amirite? And then there's this story:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown ... in-gresham


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:30 pm 
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This wiki article on European Kindred makes it sound like the Nazis are fighting the Mafia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Kindred


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:30 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
So I'm about 15 mins into Welcome To Leith, and Cobb says "We're being genocided in our own country..." This is something that's been bugging me since I started going down this rabbit hole. This narrative of being "genocided" seems to be one of the foundational tenets of all of these groups. But where are they getting their data? Strictly speaking, is there any sort of data that shows black/Hispanic/Muslim/other people killing whites in large numbers? Or are they talking more about "economic genocide" -- affirmative action, diversity measures in the work place, etc? I've never seen any striking data that says "black people are killing white people" or anything like that (and I could easily believe the opposite is more true). But I guess I could at least understand the "economic genocide" argument, in the sense that there are probably stats that show traditionally white jobs going to people of other races.

I can't speak for the USA, and the situation in Australia isn't comparable either, but I think the European trend towards a more nationalist/nativist political approach is somewhat understandable given they've borne the brunt more dramatically of that liberal, open borders approach to immigration, eg. Birmingham and Brussels now having over 25% Muslim populations.

I think you'd be right to have serious concerns about the future demographic impact of that change, particularly once those populations start to have signficant electoral influence.


I was on board with your train of thought until you pointed towards "electoral influence" as being a particularly good reason for stricter border controls. I would have gone with "UK residents having their heads cut off by ISIS" or something like that. My own outlook is that your (totally realistic) idea of electoral influence being swayed by larger proportions of immigrants falls under free speech (constitutionally speaking), and the free exchange of ideas in a free world (ideologically speaking).

Can you say more about why you'd view stricter borders as inherently good, apart from the obvious deterrence to violence? Is there something about the "preserving our way of life" mentality that is better to you than allowing new ideas to enter? I ask because this was basically Richard Spencer's position in the interview clip I posted earlier; and to a lesser extent, Craig Cobb's position in Welcome to Leith. I just don't understand why some people feel that their "native-by-birth, yet descendent of immigrants" position in a given country is somehow more righteous than "new immigrant" (did I state that question clearly?)

I'm sure the existing residents of Birmingham and Brussels are thankful for this influx of exciting new ideas:

Image

Sorry, I couldn't resist the flippant response (though it's not entirely off-base). I'm at work now, will hopefully have more time to respond later.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:48 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Being from very rural Mississippi, I know a lot of racists around, but there isn't any organization or movement to it (in contrast to some shitty John Grisham movie or something that makes it sound like there is a klansman around every corner.) I've seen one klan group in my entire life, when I was like 5, and I don't think they were from around there.

I gather it's different in the west, but I haven't seen anything like that in western Oregon and Washington, so I can't speak to that. I see the occasional confederate flag (ah, my people! I'm getting homesick...), but that's about it.

I'm super interested about the Oregon hate groups. The guys who lived across the street from me when I lived in SE Portland were definitely skin heads, and they were always blasting punk music. In retrospect, I'm wondering if they were affiliated with Volksfront or maybe Hammerskin (a white supremacy punk rock label).

PDX has a long and nasty history of racism and segregation. Some of the city parks still have statues or plaques that indicate "whites only." And it's one of those cities with a million different sub-neighborhoods and subcultures; who knows what goes on beyond Powell and 81st, amirite? And then there's this story:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown ... in-gresham

I'm more worried about our enlightened tolerant left at the moment.

http://www.kgw.com/news/politics/may-da ... /435436532

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:54 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Being from very rural Mississippi, I know a lot of racists around, but there isn't any organization or movement to it (in contrast to some shitty John Grisham movie or something that makes it sound like there is a klansman around every corner.) I've seen one klan group in my entire life, when I was like 5, and I don't think they were from around there.

I gather it's different in the west, but I haven't seen anything like that in western Oregon and Washington, so I can't speak to that. I see the occasional confederate flag (ah, my people! I'm getting homesick...), but that's about it.

I'm super interested about the Oregon hate groups. The guys who lived across the street from me when I lived in SE Portland were definitely skin heads, and they were always blasting punk music. In retrospect, I'm wondering if they were affiliated with Volksfront or maybe Hammerskin (a white supremacy punk rock label).

PDX has a long and nasty history of racism and segregation. Some of the city parks still have statues or plaques that indicate "whites only." And it's one of those cities with a million different sub-neighborhoods and subcultures; who knows what goes on beyond Powell and 81st, amirite? And then there's this story:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown ... in-gresham

I'm more worried about our enlightened tolerant left at the moment.

http://www.kgw.com/news/politics/may-da ... /435436532


Lumping the anarchists in with the left is about as fair as lumping the racists in with the GOP. Do with that what you will.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Well they are leftists to be sure, though I wouldn't lump them in with democrats or even liberals. Or at least, I try to avoid it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:59 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Well they are leftists to be sure, though I wouldn't lump them in with democrats or even liberals. Or at least, I try to avoid it.

Yes, you are right. I often get lazy and lump the liberals in with the left, but I know they're not the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:59 pm 
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I hope the anarchists kill off every conservative politician

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:01 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
I hope the anarchists kill off every conservative politician

Can we keep John McCain? He could be, like, the rational grandad who reminds us where we came from.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:01 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
I hope the anarchists kill off every conservative politician

Then rest easy, conservative politicians will be included with all the other innocent deaths they cause in the process.

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:02 am 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
I hope the anarchists kill off every conservative politician

Can we keep John McCain? He could be, like, the rational grandad who reminds us where we came from.

No

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dimejinky99 wrote:
Take that post and push it off a bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:02 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
I hope the anarchists kill off every conservative politician

Then rest easy, conservative politicians will be included with all the other innocent deaths they cause in the process.

Good. Bring on the death.

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dimejinky99 wrote:
Take that post and push it off a bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:10 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Good. Bring on the death.


preaching to the choir

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:13 am 
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Find your local hate group!

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:13 am 
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Being from the Boston suburbs, this sort of thing really wasn't an issue in my community growing up--I did go to a very white school where we had no black students until I was in 5th or 6th grade, but the community at large was pretty diverse. As many have sort of indicated, the only real racism I saw was the "soft, old-person kind" where people used to bemoan, "The neighborhood used to look different, you know what I mean?" But my family had a summer home in a small town in New Hampshire where we'd go every summer, and that town was 99% white--probably 100% white when my parents bought a cottage there in the mid-'80s. When I was 15 or so and working at a local camp, my mother asked if I'd walk home with one of my co-workers and her little brother--their house was on the way, and I walked home every day, so it wouldn't be a real big deal, right?

I don't remember if it was later that summer or after the summer was over, but I eventually found out that my co-worker's parents had asked my boss to see if any white staff member would walk home with them--they were black--and my boss contacted my mom to set it up. The reason? They were the first black family to move into the town maybe ever (or at least as long as anyone could remember), and the KKK started putting up fliers and actually held a rally at the post office to vaguely declare that the town "wouldn't be taken over" and that they would "do anything necessary" to keep it the way it was (I did some searching online and found this article from the Boston Phoenix that references when it was all getting rolling). Once I found out what was going down, I started to piece together why people would speed up in cars while passing us, and I think there may have been a few shouts out of windows as well. But while it was all going on, I had no idea. The family moved that year, I think, and things quieted down quickly. They still have the house up there and there hasn't been a peep since.

Looking at the date in that article, I guess I was 14, not 15 that summer. Which means my mother put me between this family and the Klan when I was fourteen years old. Thanks, Mom.

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 Post subject: Re: Hate Groups: White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Alt-Righ
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:14 am 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
Find your local hate group!

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

I don't see Red Mosquito listed.


"Aggressive Christianity" was one. hahah.

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