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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 4:13 pm 
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The Argonaut wrote:
This one is indefensible. Just embarrassing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ng/518652/

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing. The very real attack on peaceful assembly and free speech that is happening all across the country should be of high concern to everyone, and denying its existence is dishonest and dangerous. This is the kind of evidence that continues to be ignored or skewed by so many that insist freedom of speech isn't under attack and that protesters are peaceful, when they clearly aren't. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but what is happening more often than not is violent uprising of people that believe in physically silencing anyone that dares to think differently than them. Until this truth is recognized and condemned by those that continue to deny it, affirm it, or encourage it, I fear these types of incidents and violent altercations will only escalate and eventually people are going to die.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Now if only you were concerned that the actual president of the United States has deemed the press the enemy of the American people, which is an actual fascist action. Look up what fascism actually means. What the people in the above article are doing isn't good, but it's not fascism, which has a very specific definition. Criminalizing peaceful protest (which this administration has actually made overtures to) would also fall under that umbrella. As scary as the Black bloc and some of these other groups can be, they have no real power. They aren't in the government making laws. If you're a libertarian you should be much more concerned about the people writing actual anti-liberty laws in the books.

Also, the anti-immigration rhetoric is absolutely creating violence against LEGAL immigrants. Multiple Indian men (who often hold highly needed jobs as doctors, engineers, etc.) have been shot and killed in xenophobic attacks in the past several days, and no one seems to give a shit. There is thought now that communities in red states are facing doctor shortages in part due to the immigration order, which again, is an actual legislative policy of the current government.


Last edited by Orpheus on Tue March 07, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Orpheus wrote:
Now if only you were concerned that the actual president of the United States has deemed the press the enemy of the American people, which is an actual fascist action. Look up what fascism actually means. What the people in the above article are doing isn't good, but it's not fascism, which has a very specific definition.

Silencing dissent through force is fascism, and I am concerned about the president and the media. Both sides are extreme in my view. The media has perpetrated many untruths and deserves skepticism, but a free and honest press is a pillar of a free people.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Sorry for the edit after your reply, just had more to say on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 6:10 pm 
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There's a lot of merit to what Friedersdorf is saying here (this topic is, for lack of a better term, an obsession for him), but Orpheus is right to note the disparity in concern between things like this and a president who, on paper, is tantamount to a libertarian's worst nightmare. The question of these kinds of actions on college campuses is notable, and I get why they concern people, but to act like this is Chapter 1 to the End of the Republic is fairly overblown; opposition from libertarians to Trump has been paltry compared to the coverage things like this get.

You get the impression libertarians feel more comfortable in these waters than taking on Trump. From my outside perspective, that seems to be starting to change, but it's still notable that it's taken this long.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 6:48 pm 
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The Argonaut wrote:
This one is indefensible. Just embarrassing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ng/518652/

Yeah that's pretty fucked up.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 9:41 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
All I did was call him a nazi. It might not be the most accurate term, but it's not the same as when people call everyone they disagree with nazis. If that was the case I'd be calling you a nazi, which I'm not.


Nobody can ever be a nazi because free speech. Duh!


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Tue March 07, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
All I did was call him a nazi. It might not be the most accurate term, but it's not the same as when people call everyone they disagree with nazis. If that was the case I'd be calling you a nazi, which I'm not.


Nobody can ever be a nazi because free speech. Duh!

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Wed March 08, 2017 12:44 am 
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PHATJ wrote:
The very real attack on peaceful assembly and free speech that is happening all across the country.

I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but what is happening more often than not is violent uprising of people.

The hyperbole is strong with this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Wed March 08, 2017 1:52 am 
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Dscans wrote:
PHATJ wrote:
The very real attack on peaceful assembly and free speech that is happening all across the country.

I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but what is happening more often than not is violent uprising of people.

The hyperbole is strong with this one.


Would you prefer happening in many areas across the country and happening at an alarming rate?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Wed March 08, 2017 10:04 pm 
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digster wrote:
There's a lot of merit to what Friedersdorf is saying here (this topic is, for lack of a better term, an obsession for him), but Orpheus is right to note the disparity in concern between things like this and a president who, on paper, is tantamount to a libertarian's worst nightmare. The question of these kinds of actions on college campuses is notable, and I get why they concern people, but to act like this is Chapter 1 to the End of the Republic is fairly overblown; opposition from libertarians to Trump has been paltry compared to the coverage things like this get.

You get the impression libertarians feel more comfortable in these waters than taking on Trump. From my outside perspective, that seems to be starting to change, but it's still notable that it's taken this long.



It's Chapter 2. It's hard to argue that what is happening at US universities won't have a major effect on the very near future, and since it's been happening for awhile, the future is now.

As to libertarian's thoughts on Trump, our perspectives probably differ quite a bit (I know a lot of Hispanic libertarians who want nothing to do with him), but the truth of that is probably somewhere in the middle.

Trump's only been around for a few months. For the most part he's a useful idiot. His incompetence exposes the problem with strong central government, and the look on democrat faces when they had to hand over control of the weaponized federal government they created was nearly worth him winning. So far he's been a bull in a china shop in Washington, though there isn't much intelligence behind it. Clinton would have been a far more dangerous foe, and make no mistake libertarians consider both of them foes.

Libertarians still hope to get some of their economic ideas through a Republican congress (though that is stymied by the usual corruption), but the socially repressive and anti-free trade/pro-border stance of Republicans is a hard trade off to swallow. But that's nothing new.

At this point, libertarian's only tangible connection to the Republican party is Rand Paul, and he's so inconsistent he's barely worth supporting.


Democrats , on the other hand, only offer more socialism.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri March 10, 2017 4:44 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
At this point, libertarian's only tangible connection to the Republican party is Rand Paul, and he's so inconsistent he's barely worth supporting.


For all his flaws, still better than Gary Johnson's 2016 run. Yikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sat March 11, 2017 10:58 am 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
At this point, libertarian's only tangible connection to the Republican party is Rand Paul, and he's so inconsistent he's barely worth supporting.


For all his flaws, still better than Gary Johnson's 2016 run. Yikes.

Heh even libertarians who would never vote for the 2 major parties wanted nothing to do with him. What a clown.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sat March 11, 2017 2:42 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Trump's only been around for a few months. For the most part he's a useful idiot. His incompetence exposes the problem with strong central government, and the look on democrat faces when they had to hand over control of the weaponized federal government they created was nearly worth him winning. So far he's been a bull in a china shop in Washington, though there isn't much intelligence behind it.

"I'm glad they put the toddler behind the wheel of that tractor trailer. When he ran over all those people, it really exposed the problem with allowing such huge trucks to exist."


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sat March 11, 2017 8:52 pm 
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tractor trailers should exist. All powerful presidents should not.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sun March 26, 2017 3:19 am 
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new Trump rally scheduled in April at Berkeley. Somebody will probably die at this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sun March 26, 2017 4:14 am 
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Kill your IP


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sun March 26, 2017 5:40 am 
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good boy, doggo.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sun April 16, 2017 1:51 am 
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Lot of good wholesome rioting fun was had today.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
PostPosted: Sun April 16, 2017 2:13 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
new Trump rally scheduled in April at Berkeley. Somebody will probably die at this one.


pshhh, you were way off...



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