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The right is not all of a sudden actually more in favor of real free speech. Each side is just more anti-the-other-side's-speech than they usually are. see anti-milo on the left and the attempt to pass laws basically criminalizing peaceful protest coming from GOP statehouses
I'd argue making actual laws prohibiting speech and assembly is a much bigger deal than protesting and getting your way.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:18 am
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
The Argonaut wrote:
The right is not all of a sudden actually more in favor of real free speech. Each side is just more anti-the-other-side's-speech than they usually are. see anti-milo on the left and the attempt to pass laws basically criminalizing peaceful protest coming from GOP statehouses
I'd argue making actual laws prohibiting speech and assembly is a much bigger deal than protesting and getting your way.
Well, that's certainly a more direct inhibition of free speech as it's an attempt to limit someone's right to speak by law. The constitutional protection refers to an overbearing government, not private pressure.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:21 am
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digster wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
The Argonaut wrote:
The right is not all of a sudden actually more in favor of real free speech. Each side is just more anti-the-other-side's-speech than they usually are. see anti-milo on the left and the attempt to pass laws basically criminalizing peaceful protest coming from GOP statehouses
I'd argue making actual laws prohibiting speech and assembly is a much bigger deal than protesting and getting your way.
Well, that's certainly a more direct inhibition of free speech as it's an attempt to limit someone's right to speak by law. The constitutional protection refers to an overbearing government, not private pressure.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:24 am
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Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:42 am
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Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:45 am
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To be more clear: I'm not just for constitutional protection of free speech. It goes beyond legal protections. I think it's something that should be striven for at all times, especially at universities. And more and more that isn't the case. This is mostly driven by irrational fear and hate, IMO. That doesn't mean I think someone should be able to barge into your home or business and start shouting whatever they want. You have a right to say no, but should you?
"I never learned anything from someone I agreed with" and all that.
And violent action against peaceful speakers/protesters is how you get fascists. Do you want to get fascists? Because that's how you get fascists.
cutuphalfdead wrote:
You seem to hold the actions of the anarchist fringe against the entirety of the left.
I don't (maybe a little, but that's just me being troll-y). Though many don't exactly denounce it either. I have criticisms of the broader Left about them not explicitly being anti-free speech, but certainly suppressive of it. And that starts with calling everyone a nazi, racist, sexist, etc. But that's a different argument.
Liberals should be aware that these groups aren't pro-liberal either.
I have some progressive friends and hardcore idealists. THey are like this and it really does bother me. Some of them have lost thier shit over bill maher because of Milo. I think that is fucking retarded and absolutely a reason why we lost the election.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 3:51 am
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I'd just like to point out, because I don't think I've seen it pointed out so far, that the Milo speaking event didn't get shut down because the school listened to the students and agreed to shut it down. It got shut down because the protesters created an environment where the campus couldn't ensure the safety and security of the speaker or the audience. Milo is a piece of shit, but that never sat right with me. Dunno whose argument this helps.
I totally get what Burt is going on about and i don't totally disagree with him. My counterpoint is that - although it turned violent (which i dont 100% approve) they other side exercised their free speech the same. The situation resolved in a way that our democracy allowed it to. Nobody died though, right?
Post subject: Re: Anti-Trump fascists attack in Berkeley
Posted: Tue March 07, 2017 4:03 am
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