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 Post subject: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 9:11 pm 
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http://nymag.com/news/features/cannibal-cop-2014-1/

I find this whole thing fascinating. Really recommend reading the story.
But if you want a tl;dr


Quote:
On October 25, 2012, Valle was arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping.[9] The arrest occurred after his wife reported to police that she had found in his Internet search engine history a series of chat room communications on Dark Fetish Net, a forum dedicated to sexual fetishes and fantasies involving torture, rape, murder and cannibalism. Valle had been chatting with another user about torturing and murdering her, as well as murdering and cannibalizing more than 100 other women.

Valle faced a maximum of life in prison for the conspiracy charge, and a maximum of five years for accessing the federal National Crime Information Center database without authorization. Valle's wife testified against him during the trial. Throughout the trial, Valle claimed that the chat room communications were mere fantasy, and that he had no intention of acting on them. He was found guilty of all charges in March 2013.

Judge Paul G. Gardephe of Federal District Court overturned Valle's conviction on the conspiracy charge in June 2014, saying the evidence supported his contention that he was engaged in only “fantasy role-play”. Valle had at this point served 21 months in prison. The lesser conviction regarding the database remained standing, but Valle was sentenced to time served and released.[8] The government appealed the dismissal of the conspiracy charge to the Second Circuit.

Harvard Law professor Noah Feldman wrote in an op-ed for the Chicago Tribune that there is a "high probability" of the appeal continuing to U.S. Supreme Court.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Hmmm that's a tough one. I'll let the board lawyers weigh in before I tell them they are wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 9:51 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
Really recommend reading the story.


I'll wait for the inevitable podcast.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:02 pm 
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When I read the quote I thought it sounded like an overreach....after reading the article the guy is clearly insane fuck him.


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:03 pm 
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bada wrote:
When I read the quote I thought it sounded like an overreach....after reading the article the guy is clearly insane fuck him.

But should he be jailed for sharing his private fantasies anonymously to a crowd of like-minded strangers, fucked up as they are?

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:05 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
bada wrote:
When I read the quote I thought it sounded like an overreach....after reading the article the guy is clearly insane fuck him.

But should he be jailed for sharing his private fantasies anonymously to a crowd of like-minded strangers, fucked up as they are?


None of us would be free.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:07 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
bada wrote:
When I read the quote I thought it sounded like an overreach....after reading the article the guy is clearly insane fuck him.

But should he be jailed for sharing his private fantasies anonymously to a crowd of like-minded strangers, fucked up as they are?

Should society wait until he acts on these urges and actually rapes, kills and eats somebody before something is done?


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:11 pm 
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wease wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
bada wrote:
When I read the quote I thought it sounded like an overreach....after reading the article the guy is clearly insane fuck him.

But should he be jailed for sharing his private fantasies anonymously to a crowd of like-minded strangers, fucked up as they are?

Should society wait until he acts on these urges and actually rapes, kills and eats somebody before something is done?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 10:17 pm 
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For the record I haven't really thought this through beyond "that is an interesting quandary". My gut reaction is that a person should not be jailed for sharing their fucked up fantasies, and that it is fallacious to assume that fantasizing about something will inevitably lead to acting on it.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 11:35 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
For the record I haven't really thought this through beyond "that is an interesting quandary". My gut reaction is that a person should not be jailed for sharing their fucked up fantasies, and that it is fallacious to assume that fantasizing about something will inevitably lead to acting on it.

This is my initial feeling as well. I think it's one thing if someone comes right out and admits they are planning on killing someone, and there is evidence to support that assertion, but if someone is only saying they fantasize about something horrific and would LIKE to do it, that cannot be illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 11:39 pm 
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The line gets a bit blurry there

Quote:
In January, Valle had e-mailed Vanhise photos of Alicia Frisca, the friend of ­Kathleen’s who teaches at the school where she once worked, and offered to kidnap her for him for $5,000. Vanhise replied, “Could we do four?” To which Valle responded: “I am putting my neck on the line here. If something goes wrong somehow, I am in deep shit. $5,000 and you need to make sure that she is not found. She will definitely make the news.” In chats happening about the same time with Ali Khan, Valle suggested taking Kathleen on a trip to India, where the two of them would kill her and prepare her for dinner. “We will take turns with her,” he wrote, after sending him a photo of Kathleen in a bikini. They also discussed killing Andria Noble, one of his college friends. “It’s personal with Andria,” Valle wrote. “She will absolutely suffer.” Later, he added that he’d found a recipe for chloroform online. “I’m in the middle of constructing a pulley apparatus in my basement to string her up by her feet.”

By summer, Valle had spent more time chatting with Moody Blues, bragging that his oven was big enough to fit a victim in it if he folded her legs and mentioning that he had a place up in the mountains (“No one around for three-quarters of a mile”) where he could bring one woman of their choice. They settled on Kimberly Sauer, a college friend of Valle’s, and Valle started planning the details: “Once she is dead, I will take her out and properly butcher her body and cook the meat right away. And that could be out on a rotisserie too.” Valle later e-mailed Moody Blues a short Word document titled “Abducting and Cooking Kimberly, a Blueprint.” He listed materials he’d need to do the job: a car, chloroform (“refer to website for directions”), rope, a gag (“duct tape?”), a tarp or plastic bags to protect the trunk from any DNA remains, more bags for Sauer’s clothes, and “cheap sneakers.”


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Fri March 03, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Hmm. That is definitely gray area. It's still hard to say that isn't just fantasy and braggadocio.


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 12:25 am 
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I was fascinated by this story when it was happening. I had a google news alert and everything. There was also a HBO doc about it not too long ago. It's a tough call. I think the fact that this guy was a cop made what he did all the worse. The bar should be higher for people in positions like that. He did also use police databases to look up information about women he was fantasizing/chatting about, which is pretty scary.
The funny part is that a little later he started a dating profile on OKCupid or something. He isn't a very smart guy.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:03 am 
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Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:04 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.

fascist


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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:06 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.


I will pay you $5000 to kill and eat Stip

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:08 am 
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maybe there has to be some kind of transaction first?

I don't know. But let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:09 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.


I will pay you $5000 to kill and eat Stip

mods?!

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:15 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.


I will pay you $5000 to kill and eat Stip


I'll do it for $4500.

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 Post subject: Re: When are awful thoughts criminal actions? (CANNIBAL COP)
PostPosted: Sat March 04, 2017 1:15 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Seems like a clear cut case of hiring someone to kidnap his wife. Even if he wasn't gonna follow through on the crazy shit, it still seems like a crime was committed.


I will pay you $5000 to kill and eat Stip


Trag is gonna hate this post.

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