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_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 8:02 pm
Looks Like a Cat
Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm Posts: 14267
Also, I’m waiting at least until Monday to try and understand the release. Far too much hysteria right now
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 8:22 pm
I've been POOSSTTIiiEEnngeeaahh
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:53 pm Posts: 12082
If I understand everything....they couldn't prove collusion....the president tried like hell to obstruct but no one listened to him so there was no crime....you probably can't successfully impeach someone for being an asshole. That about right?
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 8:51 pm
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am Posts: 21845
bada wrote:
If I understand everything....they couldn't prove collusion....the president tried like hell to obstruct but no one listened to him so there was no crime....you probably can't successfully impeach someone for being an asshole. That about right?
They demonstrated repeated collusion, which isn’t a crime.
They couldn’t demonstrate conspiracy, in part due to unanswered questions (ie they never really got any answers one way or another about Manafort’s polling data delivery).
The special counsel’s office pretty explicitly felt that the president attempted to obstruct...it is true that most of the more extreme attempts failed due to people ignoring his orders, but the report also makes it clear that they felt his actions “materially hindered the investigation,” and likely rose to the level of impeachabilty. And not all of these events (WaPo collected) are unacted ambitions:
Quote:
Mueller confirmed the accounts that former FBI director James B. Comey supplied: Trump demanded his loyalty and pressed Comey to lay off national security adviser Michael Flynn. Trump falsely claimed that neither of these things happened, but the report sides with Comey’s versions of events.
Mueller details that after Trump fired Comey, the White House flatly lied to cover up the fact it was Trump’s decision. Trump called Rosenstein — who had written that memo providing the pretext that the firing was about the FBI’s unfair treatment of Hillary Clinton — and asked him to do a news conference explaining the firing. But Rosenstein refused, saying that if he did that, he’d have to tell the media the truth, which was that it was Trump’s decision, and not his. A White House spokesman subsequently told the falsehood to the media.
The report notes that when Trump became aware he was being investigated for obstruction of justice, Trump’s misconduct grew substantially more serious: "At that point, the President engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”
The report details that Trump repeatedly ordered White House counsel Donald McGahn to instruct Rosenstein to fire Mueller. The report says McGahn “decided to quit because he did not want to participate in events that he described as akin to a Saturday Night Massacre,” but ultimately stayed and deflected the requests.
When media reports emerged about Trump telling McGahn to have Mueller fired, Trump instructed McGahn to lie to the public and claim that the president had never ordered him to remove the special counsel. McGahn refused.
The report has new details on how Trump misled the country about the infamous 2016 Trump Tower meeting. It recounts that top Trump adviser Hope Hicks wanted to disclose that Russians had offered Donald Trump Jr. information helpful to the campaign. But the president nixed that, explicitly ordering Hicks to issue a statement that falsified the true purpose of the meeting.
The report confirms new details about Trump’s pressure on top intelligence officials to impede the investigation. It details that Trump may have pressed Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats to subvert the investigation, with one aide to Coats suggesting (in the report’s words) that Trump wanted him to “get it over with" or “end it."
Trump also called a second top official and asked him to publicly refute news stories linking him to Russia. A third official called it (in the report’s words) the "most unusual thing he had experienced in 40 years of government service.”
Trump directed his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to tell then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions to give a speech announcing he was directing Mueller to focus his investigation only on “election meddling for future elections." Lewandowski was unable to arrange a meeting with Sessions.
Which doesn’t even include the incitement, dangled pardons, and intimidation efforts Trump engaged in, in public.
Taken together, it’s beyond any historical presidential obstruction efforts. But no, impeachment won’t happen, because Democrats fear the impact it could have on the election, and their leadership is grade A chickenshit.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 8:54 pm
Looks Like a Cat
Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm Posts: 14267
The report found collusion? Jesus, no wonder the media is in melt down right now.
And wow:
Quote:
, but the report also makes it clear that they felt his actions “materially hindered the investigation,” and likely rose to the level of impeachabilty.
First I’ve heard on that. Huge.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Taken together, it’s beyond any historical presidential obstruction efforts. But no, impeachment won’t happen, because Democrats fear the impact it could have on the election, and their leadership is grade A chickenshit.
Also, impeachment is meaningless given that the Senate will never remove him anyway.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 11:09 pm
Looks Like a Cat
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 9:55 pm Posts: 13819 Location: An office full of assholes
durdencommatyler wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Taken together, it’s beyond any historical presidential obstruction efforts. But no, impeachment won’t happen, because Democrats fear the impact it could have on the election, and their leadership is grade A chickenshit.
Also, impeachment is meaningless given that the Senate will never remove him anyway.
agreed, if you're looking for a conviction. but if you want this president to carry the infamous distinction of being only the 3rd president to be impeached, they would be successful.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Thu April 18, 2019 11:35 pm
Looks Like a Cat
Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm Posts: 14267
bune wrote:
What is this referencing, like what is the context of this statement?
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
Taken together, it’s beyond any historical presidential obstruction efforts. But no, impeachment won’t happen, because Democrats fear the impact it could have on the election, and their leadership is grade A chickenshit.
Also, impeachment is meaningless given that the Senate will never remove him anyway.
agreed, if you're looking for a conviction. but if you want this president to carry the infamous distinction of being only the 3rd president to be impeached, they would be successful.
Absolutely. But I'm just not sure what that actually accomplishes, real world.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Fri April 19, 2019 3:05 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Thu November 21, 2013 10:01 pm Posts: 1847
Personally I think Democrats should have announced yesterday they were beginning impeachment. They're showing that tendency of theirs to "play it safe," but I think the danger here is allowing a president to blur the lines so badly that Republicans will take note at just how much they can get away with. Pelosi's line that Trump "isn't worth it" as far as impeachment goes is bullshit in light of the report, because this isn't about Trump it's about our democracy, and that is certainly "worth it." Plus, put the "law and order" Republicans on the record supporting a criminal and see how that works out for them in the long run.
_________________ I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.
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