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So about a quarter of what we were seeing 18 years ago. Some crisis.
TBF, those charts only document apprehensions, so there's going to be continued disagreement about how many undocumented people make it through without being apprehended. How you read the data matters, too: the numbers dropping so low under Obama could be seen as them being "soft" or uncommitted to protecting the border.
So about a quarter of what we were seeing 18 years ago. Some crisis.
TBF, those charts only document apprehensions, so there's going to be continued disagreement about how many undocumented people make it through without being apprehended. How you read the data matters, too: the numbers dropping so low under Obama could be seen as them being "soft" or uncommitted to protecting the border.
So about a quarter of what we were seeing 18 years ago. Some crisis.
TBF, those charts only document apprehensions, so there's going to be continued disagreement about how many undocumented people make it through without being apprehended. How you read the data matters, too: the numbers dropping so low under Obama could be seen as them being "soft" or uncommitted to protecting the border.
The 2017 numbers are under Trump though.
Yeah but that's the obstructionist Democrat's fault. WITCH HUNT
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun June 24, 2018 9:38 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Fri March 22, 2013 7:20 pm Posts: 8579 Location: 41.1716° S, 174.8248° E
I have to say if you support the owner of Ren Hen for asking Sarah to leave cause of their personal convictions - then you kinda have to be on the side of the baker
_________________ "I really enjoy sandwiches but the other guys are so good at making sandwiches that I don't make them. Now I make sandwiches."
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun June 24, 2018 9:47 pm
I Have A Third Nipple
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 7:41 am Posts: 19720 Location: Cumberland, RI
Rangi Guy wrote:
So one person's personal convictions count another's don't?
I think the main thrust of the argument here is that a person's sexual orientation is not the same as someone's personal decisions about the policies they choose to enact as a member of a political administration. I've had some trouble organizing how I feel about the situation over the past few days--on the one hand, of course the owner of the restaurant had every right to do what he did, and of course I find SHS to be a willing participant in the Trumpain machine; but, on the other, I think that allies of the LGBT+ community "citing" the SCOTUS decision on the bakery when defending the owner's actions to be, well, icky and weird.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun June 24, 2018 9:59 pm
I Have A Third Nipple
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 7:41 am Posts: 19720 Location: Cumberland, RI
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Judging someone's actions and saying I don't want that person in my shop isn't the same as saying I don't want homosexuals in my shop.
To be fair, the SCOTUS case wasn't about having gay people in their shop or even serving gay people--it was about providing a cake for a gay wedding. There's a very fine distinction there, and some of the language in the SCOTUS decision was really interesting in the sense that it compared a wedding cake to a work of art. The thinking goes like this, I guess: if you were an artist and you painted and then sold horses and landscapes, you'd be in violation of federal law if you refused to sell a painting to a person for who they are (i.e., a protected class). But if you're a painter and you only do works that people commission you to do, you're under no obligation to paint something that you find morally reprehensible or that you flat-out don't feel like.
I'm not saying I agree with the ruling, it's just something I found interesting about it; I also think it's important to be precise about what was being argued there.
Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun June 24, 2018 10:01 pm
Looks Like a Cat
Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm Posts: 14221
Simple Torture wrote:
Rangi Guy wrote:
So one person's personal convictions count another's don't?
I think the main thrust of the argument here is that a person's sexual orientation is not the same as someone's personal decisions about the policies they choose to enact as a member of a political administration. I've had some trouble organizing how I feel about the situation over the past few days--on the one hand, of course the owner of the restaurant had every right to do what he did, and of course I find SHS to be a willing participant in the Trumpain machine; but, on the other, I think that allies of the LGBT+ community "citing" the SCOTUS decision on the bakery when defending the owner's actions to be, well, icky and weird.
They get hard from the irony of the discriminators getting discriminated against. It’s a core tenant of progressive thought.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
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