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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:57 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Interesting: If you don't count CA, Trump won by 1.4 million votes.

Interesting: if you don't count Texas and Alabama, Clinton won by over 4 million votes.

Or maybe interesting isn't the word.


4.27 million vote margin for Clinton in CA is pretty big. She had about the same number of votes there as total people that voted in TX. It's interesting in the sense that CA is so powerful that direct-democracy-wise they would essentially rule the country. Maybe that is enough of an argument to keep the electoral college.

This argument supposes that the rule should be dependent on the political makeup of the populous states. If CA is heavy left or right, the EC makes sense, but if it's evenly split the popular vote makes sense. I reject that mode entirely. The decision should be based on which is the most democratic system, with no consideration of the current political makeup of the individual states. If we use political demographics to make this decision what makes sense today might not make sense a few generations from now.


That was not my intent, I could make the same argument if CA was solid red. I guess I was pondering how any other state would make it's voice heard. Without the EC it seems like you could campaign just in CA, TX, NY, FL, and then a bit around Chicago and Philly. Perhaps percentage of a states electors derived from the popular vote?

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Maybe we should let people decide, and not states.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:06 pm 
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Maybe we shouldn't have a president.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:10 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Maybe we should let people decide, and not states.



But the people in CA have different needs and focus areas from the people in FL from the people in North Dakota from the people in Texas.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:11 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Maybe we should let people decide, and not states.



But the people in CA have different needs and focus areas from the people in FL from the people in North Dakota from the people in Texas.

Yet we elect one person to lead us.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:12 pm 
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Yeah, that's kind of unavoidable in a country of our size and diversity in terms of population, region, etc.

I think the thing about the EC argument is that it really doesn't equalize the playing field. It makes certain people's votes count less and others' votes count more. Maybe there's an argument that that is still the right thing to do, but the EC doesn't give those smaller states a more equitable say in the election. It gives them an outsized say in comparison to their coastal counterparts.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:15 pm 
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There's no great answer. Theoretically, I personally think the best option would be to apportion EC votes in per state by the popular vote in that state, but that's likely impossible and would lead to countless recounts. The next least bad option that correlates to what the American people have chosen is a popular vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:19 pm 
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what digster said


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:20 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Maybe we should let people decide, and not states.



But the people in CA have different needs and focus areas from the people in FL from the people in North Dakota from the people in Texas.

Yet we elect one person to lead us.

This is why we need secession!

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 10:32 pm 
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Or just not have a lousy, outdated election for a lousy, outdated position.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 12:12 am 
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The real issue here is that those highly populous states aren't just "bigger," they are also home to industries that represent a much larger share of our economy. So by trying to protect South Dakota from being effectively silenced, we also synthetically increase the value of legislatively nurturing less lucrative industries. We amplify weaker economic deliverers at the cost of reducing government's motivation to support innovative or more future facing ones. While rising nations focus on developing their future, we manipulate ourselves into anchoring to the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 12:26 am 
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I think the question I'm always curious about when considering support for the EC is the question of if there is a number that is just too high. Clinton won the popular vote by close to 3 million. The trends that allowed this to occur (liberals tending to move to urban areas, more sparsely populated swing states get redder, etc.) are likely only going to increase. It's not inconceivable that in the future we could see wider gaps, and it seems to only be to the detriment of one party. Is something like 5 million too much, for example?


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 12:37 am 
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Quote:
we manipulate ourselves into anchoring to the past.


Quote:
#make america great again


you don't say.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 12:49 am 
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I don't see how anyone is disenfranchised by making their vote count as much as everyone else's (and no more). If we are gonna weight votes based on population, what's to stop weighing them in favor of racial minorities or other "disenfranchised" groups? It's stupid. One person, one vote. Anything else is nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 12:56 am 
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Even the bird guy gets it.


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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 3:56 am 
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where is my tax cut

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 4:30 am 
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if the EC hadn't actually elected trump, the gun-toting wackos of this country would have totally flipped their shit

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 4:37 am 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
bada wrote:
Seems like a gamble for the Dems. What if latinos end up being more conservative than they assume?

I don't really know why it's assumed they wouldn't be conservative. Liberal race condescension, I guess?

My own mistake was assuming that immigration policy would be their primary motivator for voting.

So...liberal race condescension?


LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.

Explain to me why my assumption is condescending, but yours is not?

the difference is that i am a smug douchebag

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 4:42 am 
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I really don't see a difference there.

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Thu December 22, 2016 4:43 am 
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argo how smug r u

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