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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 4:15 am 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
bada wrote:
Seems like a gamble for the Dems. What if latinos end up being more conservative than they assume?

I don't really know why it's assumed they wouldn't be conservative. Liberal race condescension, I guess?

My own mistake was assuming that immigration policy would be their primary motivator for voting.

So...liberace condescension?


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 4:30 am 
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I think studies have found that Latinos generally do lean liberal, but not to the extent of other American minorities.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 4:35 am 
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There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.

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lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
What's going on in here

a lot of hurt


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
96583UP wrote:
500,000 new york or califormia residents move to florida and this problem ends
The New York to Florida exodus has been happening for 60+ years.
And in the case of Californians moving to Idaho, it shifted the state hard to the right. I'd imagine the same ended up true for a state like Arizona which is the Florida of the West in this discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 5:10 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.
Catholicism doesn't side along today's left/right split well. Ideologically, it's common to be incredibly pro-life but also incredibly anti-death penalty, for one. Politically, Catholics long sided with Democrats due to the GOP pandering to anti-Catholic bigotry. If the GOP continues to pander to anti-Latino bigotry it's easy to see Mexican-Americans pull hard left despite any ideological commonalities Catholicism may have with current right-wing sentiment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 5:10 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
bada wrote:
Seems like a gamble for the Dems. What if latinos end up being more conservative than they assume?

I don't really know why it's assumed they wouldn't be conservative. Liberal race condescension, I guess?

My own mistake was assuming that immigration policy would be their primary motivator for voting.

So...liberal race condescension?


LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.

Explain to me why my assumption is condescending, but yours is not?


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 6:24 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.
Catholicism doesn't side along today's left/right split well. Ideologically, it's common to be incredibly pro-life but also incredibly anti-death penalty, for one. Politically, Catholics long sided with Democrats due to the GOP pandering to anti-Catholic bigotry. If the GOP continues to pander to anti-Latino bigotry it's easy to see Mexican-Americans pull hard left despite any ideological commonalities Catholicism may have with current right-wing sentiment.


Massachusetts is 44% Catholic.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 7:51 pm 
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Self wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.
Catholicism doesn't side along today's left/right split well. Ideologically, it's common to be incredibly pro-life but also incredibly anti-death penalty, for one. Politically, Catholics long sided with Democrats due to the GOP pandering to anti-Catholic bigotry. If the GOP continues to pander to anti-Latino bigotry it's easy to see Mexican-Americans pull hard left despite any ideological commonalities Catholicism may have with current right-wing sentiment.


Massachusetts is 44% Catholic.

Yup, and a lot of them are liberals who disagree with Church doctrine on many social issues.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 8:05 pm 
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Self wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.
Catholicism doesn't side along today's left/right split well. Ideologically, it's common to be incredibly pro-life but also incredibly anti-death penalty, for one. Politically, Catholics long sided with Democrats due to the GOP pandering to anti-Catholic bigotry. If the GOP continues to pander to anti-Latino bigotry it's easy to see Mexican-Americans pull hard left despite any ideological commonalities Catholicism may have with current right-wing sentiment.


Massachusetts is 44% Catholic.

That sounds awful

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Tue November 22, 2016 8:48 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Self wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
There's a pretty deep strain of Catholicism among Mexican Americans, which I imagine must push a lot of them right.
Catholicism doesn't side along today's left/right split well. Ideologically, it's common to be incredibly pro-life but also incredibly anti-death penalty, for one. Politically, Catholics long sided with Democrats due to the GOP pandering to anti-Catholic bigotry. If the GOP continues to pander to anti-Latino bigotry it's easy to see Mexican-Americans pull hard left despite any ideological commonalities Catholicism may have with current right-wing sentiment.


Massachusetts is 44% Catholic.

Yup, and a lot of them are liberals who disagree with Church doctrine on many social issues.

Thanks for explaining, Pete.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:
That sounds awful

It's not bad at all...once you're old enough to not have to worry. Fuckers just legalized weed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Mon December 19, 2016 11:12 pm 
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I'm glad all those social media posts the last six weeks calling for the EC to switch their vote got heard today

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Mon December 19, 2016 11:15 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I'm glad all those social media posts the last six weeks calling for the EC to switch their vote got heard today

So this is how democracy dies. With thunderous applause.


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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Mon December 19, 2016 11:41 pm 
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It's sounds more like resigned sighs.

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Mon December 19, 2016 11:41 pm 
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Strat wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I'm glad all those social media posts the last six weeks calling for the EC to switch their vote got heard today

So this is how democracy dies. With thunderous applause.

Thunderclap

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 Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
PostPosted: Mon December 19, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Strat wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I'm glad all those social media posts the last six weeks calling for the EC to switch their vote got heard today

So this is how democracy dies. With thunderous applause.

I have reflected more than once recently on how angry it makes me that real life has seen fit to retroactively make the prequels look smarter than they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 4:43 pm 
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Interesting: If you don't count CA, Trump won by 1.4 million votes.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
Interesting: If you don't count CA, Trump won by 1.4 million votes.

Interesting: if you don't count Texas and Alabama, Clinton won by over 4 million votes.

Or maybe interesting isn't the word.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:34 pm 
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If you don't count Americans, America is an alright place to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:41 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Interesting: If you don't count CA, Trump won by 1.4 million votes.

Interesting: if you don't count Texas and Alabama, Clinton won by over 4 million votes.

Or maybe interesting isn't the word.


4.27 million vote margin for Clinton in CA is pretty big. She had about the same number of votes there as total people that voted in TX. It's interesting in the sense that CA is so powerful that direct-democracy-wise they would essentially rule the country and maybe that is enough of an argument to keep the electoral college.

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 Post subject: Re: Election 2016
PostPosted: Wed December 21, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Interesting: If you don't count CA, Trump won by 1.4 million votes.

Interesting: if you don't count Texas and Alabama, Clinton won by over 4 million votes.

Or maybe interesting isn't the word.


4.27 million vote margin for Clinton in CA is pretty big. She had about the same number of votes there as total people that voted in TX. It's interesting in the sense that CA is so powerful that direct-democracy-wise they would essentially rule the country. Maybe that is enough of an argument to keep the electoral college.

This argument supposes that the rule should be dependent on the political makeup of the populous states. If CA is heavy left or right, the EC makes sense, but if it's evenly split the popular vote makes sense. I reject that mode entirely. The decision should be based on which is the most democratic system, with no consideration of the current political makeup of the individual states. If we use political demographics to make this decision what makes sense today might not make sense a few generations from now.


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