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 Post subject: Re: Not worthy of a thread News
PostPosted: Thu January 07, 2016 7:54 pm 
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Burns, Oregon (CNN)The leaders of the Burns Paiute tribe have a message for the men and women who have taken over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside Burns, Oregon: "Go home. We don't want you here."

The message came from several tribe members whose ancestors fought and died over portions of that land long before the ranchers and farmers had it, long before the federal government even existed.

The tribe is still fighting over land use but now works with the federal government's Bureau of Land Management to save its archaeological sites.

"We have good relations with the refuge. They protect our cultural rights there," said tribal council Chairwoman Charlotte Rodrique.

The Bureau of Land Management is the same agency that has riled up Nevada rancher Ammon Bundy and the armed protesters who joined him from out of state. The men took over the wildlife refuge headquarters, saying they would stay until the land was returned to who they consider its owners, the 100 or so ranchers and farmers who worked the land as far back as 1900.

"We are exercising our constitutional rights. We won't leave until these lands have been turned over to the their rightful owners," Bundy said. "More than 100 ranchers and farmers used to work this land, which was taken illegally by the federal government."

The Paiute tribe decided it was time to speak about what's happening at the refuge. They did so at length and with plenty of emotion.

"They just need to get the hell out of here," tribal council member Jarvis Kennedy told a crowd of reporters and local residents who showed up to listen to what the tribe had to say on the matter.

Later he explained why he felt so angry about the takeover.

Oregon protest leader: 'There is a time to go home'

"To me they are just a bunch of bullies and little criminals coming in here and trying to push us around over here and occupy our aboriginal territories out there where our ancestors are buried," Kennedy said.

He continued to tell the history of his tribe's fight over land. Members of the tribe are descendants of the Wadatika band of northern Paiutes. Their history in the area dates back 9,000 years ago, the tribe says. The ancestors of the Burns Paiutes lived in caves near the shores of lakes in the Northern Great Basin. When the lakes began drying up the tribe had to migrate.

The tribe said it has never ceded its right to the land but received federal recognition in 1868 and signed a treaty with the federal government that requires it to protect the safety of the natives and promised to prosecute any crime or injury perpetrated by any white man upon them.

Opinion: Face it, Oregon building takeover is terrorism

Fast forward to 1879 after the treaty was signed. The Paiutes say their people were "loaded into wagons and ordered to walk under heavy guard" in knee-deep snow and forced off their land on foot.

"They literally walked our people, children and women off our lands. They had no problem killing us," Kennedy said.

Inside the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters, Kennedy said there are important official papers that document his tribe's history and his ancestors' existence on the land. That headquarters has been taken over by men from out of state.

Armed group's leader in federal building: 'We will be here as long as it takes'

"It gets tiring. It's the same battles that my ancestors had. And now it's just a bunch of different cavalry wearing a bunch of different coats," Kennedy said.

He stood with several members of the tribe, whose numbers in the Burns area have dwindled to about 200. They lead hard lives, many working odd jobs to try to make ends meet. Kennedy said he and many others rely heavily on federal government grants to survive.

"It's tough out here. Not a lot of jobs. If any company wants to relocate we'd welcome it," Kennedy said.

Bundy showed up with several others before Christmas to protest a legal case against local father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond.

A federal judge ordered the two men back to prison after a government appeal of their sentences for arson on federal lands. The government said the two set fires to cover up their poaching of deer.

Many of the townspeople said they are upset about what has happened to the Hammonds, seeing them returned to prison after serving the initial sentence, but there are mixed emotions about Bundy and the other protesters, who call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom.

A few ranchers have supported the group, bringing protesters warm soup and supper.

But in a community meeting called by the Harney County sheriff attended by hundreds of residents from the small town, the vast majority raised their hands when asked if they wanted the group to leave and the situation to end peacefully.

"What is going on down at the refuge is unfortunate. What led up to that is unfortunate, too. There are people here that tried to do a peaceful rally and that got highjacked." Harney County Sheriff David Ward told the crowd. "I am here today to ask those folks to go home and let us get back to our lives here in Harney County."

Louis Smith, who has lived in Burns for 56 years, said of the protesters, "They woke everybody up, we appreciate that. I don't agree with all they are doing, but I don't agree with the government's doing either."

After five days occupying the headquarters in the refuge that they broke into, including taking the tractors and using them as barricades at the entrance, the group has stayed put.

The tribal leaders said they agree with how the federal, local and state law enforcement authorities are dealing with the protesters. That has basically been waiting them out and not physically challenging them. The tribe members are quick to point out that they think things would be much different if it were them trying to take back the land the same way.

"We'd be already shot up, blown up or in jail. Just being honest; they are used to killing us," Kennedy said. "They are white men. That is the difference. That is just how I see it."


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 Post subject: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 12:43 am 
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Is there a discussion about these nuts? Tell me where, and I'll either move this there or split thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 1:06 am 
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its funny how tribal all you idiots are. Another Occupy movement, safely and easily ignored, but by all means, use it to spew the usual hypocritical red team/blue team talking points.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 1:59 am 
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I really don't see what the feds are waiting for. Do they really think these guys are going to shoot them?

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 2:09 am 
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Just reading some things and seeing some things on the news today, I think I can answer part of my own question above, which is: it sure seems like the feds want to see if local law enforcement can convince these guys to just leave. But, still, I don't get how charges (even just trespassing charges) won't be coming after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 2:48 am 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
its funny how tribal all you idiots are. Another Occupy movement, safely and easily ignored, but by all means, use it to spew the usual hypocritical red team/blue team talking points.


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 3:49 am 
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Simple Torture wrote:
I really don't see what the feds are waiting for. Do they really think these guys are going to shoot them?



I dont find it really that hard to believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 3:55 am 
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I doubt the Feds are afraid of getting shot. They are afraid of another Waco. If all they're guilty of is trespassing, it's not worth the trouble. Its also much easier to score political points this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:06 am 
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Dont these people have jobs or families?


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:07 am 
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Just fucking ignore them. Everybody. Law enforcement, community, media. They'll be talking to no one and just go home. Media coverage of this shit is so stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:09 am 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Just fucking ignore them. Everybody. Law enforcement, community, media. They'll be talking to no one and just go home. Media coverage of this shit is so stupid.

BUT THEY'RE TERRORISTZ!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:11 am 
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No, they are dumbass rednecks who want attention. The sooner i get into a cabin in the mountains and away from society, the better. God I can't wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:14 am 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
No, they are dumbass rednecks who want attention. The sooner i get into a cabin in the mountains and away from society, the better. God I can't wait.

the internet will find you. it's everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 5:38 am 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
No, they are dumbass rednecks who want attention. The sooner i get into a cabin in the mountains and away from society, the better. God I can't wait.


NOT IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKES ALL THE LAND FOR SAID CABIN. ARE YOU GOING TO LET THEM TREAD ON YOU BRO?!?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 12:42 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
its funny how tribal all you idiots are. Another Occupy movement, safely and easily ignored, but by all means, use it to spew the usual hypocritical red team/blue team talking points.

That's a fair point, to a point. A key difference between occupy and something like this or the Bundy ranch stuff is that the protesters are armed and threatening violence. It's not the occupying of the building that is the problem, per se.

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 1:27 pm 
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I don't really understand the "just ignore them" point. Why? Why should armed people who are taking over a place that doesn't belong to them be ignored? How is that not an obvious time for police intervention?

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Why are the feds still supplying them with water, heat, and electricity?

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 3:26 pm 
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B wrote:
Why are the feds still supplying them with water, heat, and electricity?

good question

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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 4:34 pm 
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stip wrote:
B wrote:
Why are the feds still supplying them with water, heat, and electricity?

good question
Seems to me that the last thing officials want is for these guys to become martyrs by going out in a blaze of glory. I don't see much particular harm in waiting them out, and plan for what would likely be the most humiliating outcome for this movement: to willingly surrender peacefully.


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 Post subject: Re: Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Stand-off
PostPosted: Sat January 09, 2016 5:03 pm 
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I wanna watch how people react when a group of anything but white people try this.

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