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Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:06 pm
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am Posts: 21816
Quote:
Quote:
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Multiply that a few times, and real revolt might become a lot more probable.
Armed violence against the state has a much, much harder ceiling of support than you are pretending here.
You might be surprised!
No, I really wouldn’t. Nothing hard stops US citizen support for a thing quite like “It might disrupt my life in any way whatsoever.“ The minute an insurgency affects people’s ability to buy baby formula, beer and bread is the same minute they are radicalized against you.
Even the most revolution-fetishistic crowd know deep down in their hearts that direct conflict with the United States government is an endgame scenario. That power is just too big and too ruthless to take on directly. A real United States insurgency would be about acquiring that power for themselves, not fighting it. It would be about rejecting and delegitimizing any election they couldn’t win. It would be about claiming the reins and forcing people who oppose them to become the insurgency.
Because they know the insurgency is going to lose.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:15 pm
Major Dude
Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 1:57 pm Posts: 32433 Location: Where everybody knows your name
McParadigm wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Multiply that a few times, and real revolt might become a lot more probable.
Armed violence against the state has a much, much harder ceiling of support than you are pretending here.
You might be surprised!
No, I really wouldn’t. Nothing hard stops US citizen support for a thing quite like “It might disrupt my life in any way whatsoever.“ The minute an insurgency affects people’s ability to buy baby formula, beer and bread is the same minute they are radicalized against you.
Even the most revolution-fetishistic crowd know deep down in their hearts that direct conflict with the United States government is an endgame scenario. That power is just too big and too ruthless to take on directly. A real United States insurgency would be about acquiring that power for themselves, not fighting it. It would be about rejecting and delegitimizing any election they couldn’t win. It would be about claiming the reins and forcing people who oppose them to become the insurgency.
Because they know the insurgency is going to lose.
Unless the former President commands you to perpetrate the insurgency.
_________________ Let me tell you, Homer Simpson is cock of nothing! - C. Montgomery Burns
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:16 pm
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
I'm not optimistic on the prospects of revolution or revolt or insurgency either, but to say with such confidence that it's completely impossible is pretty arrogant to me. It's totally within the realm of possibility, especially given our government's ability to do...well anything right now.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:25 pm
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
McParadigm wrote:
A real United States insurgency would be about acquiring that power for themselves, not fighting it. It would be about rejecting and delegitimizing any election they couldn’t win. It would be about claiming the reins and forcing people who oppose them to become the insurgency.
Multiply that a few times, and real revolt might become a lot more probable.
Armed violence against the state has a much, much harder ceiling of support than you are pretending here.
You might be surprised!
No, I really wouldn’t. Nothing hard stops US citizen support for a thing quite like “It might disrupt my life in any way whatsoever.“ The minute an insurgency affects people’s ability to buy baby formula, beer and bread is the same minute they are radicalized against you.
Even the most revolution-fetishistic crowd know deep down in their hearts that direct conflict with the United States government is an endgame scenario. That power is just too big and too ruthless to take on directly. A real United States insurgency would be about acquiring that power for themselves, not fighting it. It would be about rejecting and delegitimizing any election they couldn’t win. It would be about claiming the reins and forcing people who oppose them to become the insurgency.
Because they know the insurgency is going to lose.
Unless the former President commands you to perpetrate the insurgency.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:45 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8892 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Mickey wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
Mickey, Ukraine is not alone. They are not just using AKs, and Donbas seperatists were not alone in their fight against the Ukrainian state.
This has been my point all along. It's not that private gun owners are holding off the tyranny of Putin, it's a proxy war between many states. Which is what would happen here if the US gov. decided it wanted more (explicit) control.
Sorry, do you think a proxy war could never happen in the US? Because I definitely don't think that, but it's a lot harder to have a proxy war if the proxies don't have their own weapons.
Right. So, again, it's not going to be civilians & their ARs that topple Big Brother. It's going to be those 3%ers flexing and thinking they accomplished something when really it was the support of the French Navy or the steady supply of immigrants sent to the front lines or Charlie Wilson & the CIA. The idea that ARs should be unquestioned in society and handed out without restriction in order to prevent tyranny is false.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:51 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8892 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
And this is why I didnt want to go too far out of the context of this thread. Because now we're talking about a scenario where it's swapping one tyrant for another. It's not more freedom born from having ARs in my neighborhood.
If we want to talk about it further Id assume we'd require enlistment at some point which I'm not necessarily opposed to.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:59 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
To be clear, that's not what I'm contesting. I think they definitely should be regulated, I think the spectre of "tyranny"--as it is usually invoked in defense of almost unlimited gun rights--is patently absurd.
I also think the notion that organized civilian gun owners wouldn't be able to resist the US military for a significant or prolonged period of time, and that civilian gun ownership is completely ineffective as a mode of achieving social change, is a little foolish, and a little smug.
There are plenty of reasons to regulate gun sales, but this caricature of like, "What's Bubba going to do, shoot his dick off?" overestimates the capacity of the state, and in particular assumes a kind of cohesive state power that doesn't reflect its current fragmentation.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:38 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8892 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Mickey wrote:
To be clear, that's not what I'm contesting. I think they definitely should be regulated, I think the spectre of "tyranny"--as it is usually invoked in defense of almost unlimited gun rights--is patently absurd.
I also think the notion that organized civilian gun owners wouldn't be able to resist the US military for a significant or prolonged period of time, and that civilian gun ownership is completely ineffective as a mode of achieving social change, is a little foolish, and a little smug.
There are plenty of reasons to regulate gun sales, but this caricature of like, "What's Bubba going to do, shoot his dick off?" overestimates the capacity of the state, and in particular assumes a kind of cohesive state power that doesn't reflect its current fragmentation.
Thanks for clarifying. I don't know that we disagree on most of this. I just have less belief in the efficacy of US-paramilitary folks since historically any domestic terrorist has had help from the CIA.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:55 pm
Gone
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 1:03 am Posts: 2823 Location: August 2020 Poster of the Month
elliseamos wrote:
You're not blundering into it, Burt. You posted a gif of people laughing at the idea that AR-armed people (alone) can't topple the full force of the US Military. Then Mac went off. And as so often happens, the 2nd man in has taken the brunt of the flack despite the real instigating post.
Now, as far as "permission to own ARs":
On the one hand we're discussing why someone would want to own them, to which "fun" and "defense against tyranny" were the offered reasons.
On the other hand is your point, "it doesn't matter why." I'm choosing not to go down that road because it's a different conversation and one I don't feel knowledgeable enough to consider a response. I'll defer to others (if they want) and listen in on that episode.
In specifically talking about why we should all indulge your (or anyone's) desire to own one of these killing machines, is it really worth the risk that "nutjobs" will get them? And by "get them" I mostly mean "so easily", because as you say, it's your stated position that it shouldn't matter if you (or anyone) has them. I'd say it's reasonable to say you can have "if." Or, you can have after providing "x, y, z." We (meaning persons like me that can't fathom owning these things) would like you (meaning persons who want as many of these as they can afford) to have a little more accountability for this choice. It appears to me (and I assume others) that the risk is all on us for not owning our own. I wonder if we could shift it to put more of the risk being on your side (of the argument).
This style of writing (full of fucking parentheses) is cumbersome to read and shows a great disdain for your audience.
_________________
Dev wrote:
You're whole platform is about normalizing idiocy.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:05 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
macphisto wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
You're not blundering into it, Burt. You posted a gif of people laughing at the idea that AR-armed people (alone) can't topple the full force of the US Military. Then Mac went off. And as so often happens, the 2nd man in has taken the brunt of the flack despite the real instigating post.
Now, as far as "permission to own ARs":
On the one hand we're discussing why someone would want to own them, to which "fun" and "defense against tyranny" were the offered reasons.
On the other hand is your point, "it doesn't matter why." I'm choosing not to go down that road because it's a different conversation and one I don't feel knowledgeable enough to consider a response. I'll defer to others (if they want) and listen in on that episode.
In specifically talking about why we should all indulge your (or anyone's) desire to own one of these killing machines, is it really worth the risk that "nutjobs" will get them? And by "get them" I mostly mean "so easily", because as you say, it's your stated position that it shouldn't matter if you (or anyone) has them. I'd say it's reasonable to say you can have "if." Or, you can have after providing "x, y, z." We (meaning persons like me that can't fathom owning these things) would like you (meaning persons who want as many of these as they can afford) to have a little more accountability for this choice. It appears to me (and I assume others) that the risk is all on us for not owning our own. I wonder if we could shift it to put more of the risk being on your side (of the argument).
This style of writing (full of fucking parentheses) is cumbersome to read and shows a great disdain for your audience.
I'm sorry that you (a dipshit) are unable to read.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:18 pm
Gone
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 1:03 am Posts: 2823 Location: August 2020 Poster of the Month
Mickey wrote:
macphisto wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
You're not blundering into it, Burt. You posted a gif of people laughing at the idea that AR-armed people (alone) can't topple the full force of the US Military. Then Mac went off. And as so often happens, the 2nd man in has taken the brunt of the flack despite the real instigating post.
Now, as far as "permission to own ARs":
On the one hand we're discussing why someone would want to own them, to which "fun" and "defense against tyranny" were the offered reasons.
On the other hand is your point, "it doesn't matter why." I'm choosing not to go down that road because it's a different conversation and one I don't feel knowledgeable enough to consider a response. I'll defer to others (if they want) and listen in on that episode.
In specifically talking about why we should all indulge your (or anyone's) desire to own one of these killing machines, is it really worth the risk that "nutjobs" will get them? And by "get them" I mostly mean "so easily", because as you say, it's your stated position that it shouldn't matter if you (or anyone) has them. I'd say it's reasonable to say you can have "if." Or, you can have after providing "x, y, z." We (meaning persons like me that can't fathom owning these things) would like you (meaning persons who want as many of these as they can afford) to have a little more accountability for this choice. It appears to me (and I assume others) that the risk is all on us for not owning our own. I wonder if we could shift it to put more of the risk being on your side (of the argument).
This style of writing (full of fucking parentheses) is cumbersome to read and shows a great disdain for your audience.
I'm sorry that you (a dipshit) are unable to read.
You wouldn’t send that term paper back with REWRITE FOR CLARITY written across the top?
_________________
Dev wrote:
You're whole platform is about normalizing idiocy.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:20 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Yes but not because of the parentheses.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:28 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Not sure all your (((friends))) would agree.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
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