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Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Thu July 21, 2022 8:56 pm
Rank This Poster
Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 3:34 pm Posts: 4363
simple schoolboy wrote:
warehouse wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
warehouse wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
warehouse wrote:
people who legally own guns also murder people with those guns. the "good guy with a gun" idea is so shallow and shortsighted I have a hard time even taking it seriously.
Those that go through the licensing process are more law abiding than those your locality hires and arms, so, I dunno, sounds like it's a good enough shorthand.
none of this is true
Care to cite? I'm not aware of any state where concealed carry permit holders have been found to be convicted of crimes at rates higher than police officers.
lol you can't bring up a stat and then ask me to cite it. aren't all cops also licensed to carry off duty? how are you supposed to compare two groups when there's so much overlap? it also has nothing to do with what i posted. the "good guy with a gun" idea seems to imply we would be safer as a society if more people were armed. i have no idea how people can believe this to be true.
I made a claim, you called it false. What basis do you have to claim it's false?
Cops can carry off duty, but they don't have to apply for a ccw, there is no overlap.
There's a very small deterrent effect from civilian CCW holders, but then again they are only 3-5 percent of the population most places. If we bump those numbers up perhaps it would have a larger deterrent effect.
How many people are alive because that 22 year old in Indiana ignored a dumb corporate policy? 6? 20? You can't ignore this example of an average Joe being present and acting more effectively than 90% of cops.
i'm using common sense to call your claim false. prove it or stfu.
don't cops go through the same training, if not more intense training than ccw? so where is this point going? are you just being anti-cop b/c you think i am?
i'm not ignoring what this 22 year old did, but it's an extreme example. people with ccw also commit crimes with those weapons. i find it hard to believe there's any deterrent effect outside of some batshit NRA statistic
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Thu July 21, 2022 11:16 pm
Misplaced My Sponge
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am Posts: 5584
Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2021, Lott wrote:
Among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers. Among permit holders in Florida and Texas, the rate is only 1.4 per 100,000. That is a rate of just 1/12th the rate for police officers. But there's no need to focus on Texas and Florida — the data are similar in other states.
Maybe there's a state where that isn't true, but I have not seen that data.
Pro gun control orgs claim crime goes up 10 to 15 percent after shall issue is implemented based on synthetic states as a baseline, but it's not at all clear the permit holders are contributing to this significantly.
Cops go through more training than most CCW permit requirements, but they are not necessarily hobbyists, as many permit holders are. Their marksmanship requalifications are normally pretty generous. That 22 year old probably puts in more target practice than the median cop, and knows he is legally liable for every round send downrange.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Fri July 22, 2022 3:39 pm
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Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 3:34 pm Posts: 4363
simple schoolboy wrote:
Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2021, Lott wrote:
Among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers. Among permit holders in Florida and Texas, the rate is only 1.4 per 100,000. That is a rate of just 1/12th the rate for police officers. But there's no need to focus on Texas and Florida — the data are similar in other states.
Maybe there's a state where that isn't true, but I have not seen that data.
Pro gun control orgs claim crime goes up 10 to 15 percent after shall issue is implemented based on synthetic states as a baseline, but it's not at all clear the permit holders are contributing to this significantly.
Cops go through more training than most CCW permit requirements, but they are not necessarily hobbyists, as many permit holders are. Their marksmanship requalifications are normally pretty generous. That 22 year old probably puts in more target practice than the median cop, and knows he is legally liable for every round send downrange.
what you seem to be arguing for is increased training for police. what you seem to be ignoring is while hobbysts train marksmanship more regularly than police, i'm assuming based off of what you are saying, hobbysts don't train to respond to emergency situations like police do. this is where the whole "rambo" bullshit starts. just b/c you can shoot a target in a range doesn't mean you have the ability to stop a gunman. thankfully that 22 year old did, but there's alot more to it than just aiming your gun. that's generally why we have police. and it sounds like these cops need more training, based on your posts.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Fri July 22, 2022 10:12 pm
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Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 3:34 pm Posts: 4363
there's a judge somewhere who's family invests in the production and sale of firearms that is going to shoot this thing down in court. it's all just bs for cameras anyway modeling it after the dumbass texas law. i think NJ passed gun reform recently about training needed before owning a gun. the founding father's would be so upset lol.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Fri July 22, 2022 10:19 pm
Mind Your Tanners
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:20 am Posts: 8295
warehouse wrote:
there's a judge somewhere who's family invests in the production and sale of firearms that is going to shoot this thing down in court. it's all just bs for cameras anyway modeling it after the dumbass texas law. i think NJ passed gun reform recently about training needed before owning a gun. the founding father's would be so upset lol.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sat July 30, 2022 4:31 am
Misplaced My Sponge
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am Posts: 5584
Assault Weapons bill passed in the House, what are the chances this will pass in the Senate?
There's a cultural change issue wherein gun owners in 1994 could theoretically buy an AR--15, but they weren't the default choice for home defense rifle. I don't think the concept of a home defense rifle was a thing back then (outside of workplace defense rifles for LA Koreans)
Everyone and their mother has one or five ARs now. The only question is the gun owner that votes D would change sides over it, which seems unlikely.
Is there anything in the legislation to restrict components? It's pretty toothless without.
There was a bizarre takeaway from some of the recent testimony that the 5.56 cartridge is uniquely destructive to tissue when it's prohibited in many states for being insufficiently powerful to humanely take deer. It's either one or the other. Basically any bullet will leave large permanent cavities in brain, liver, and kidney tissues. Most other tissues are elastic enough to only result in small cavities.
Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Mon August 01, 2022 5:56 am
Misplaced My Sponge
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am Posts: 5584
warehouse wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
Everyone and their mother has one or five ARs now.
what pile of shit state do you live in?
Hyperbole for those legally allowed to own guns, not so much for those committed to crime.
The biggest and bluest of them all. Almost all the guns seized by local cops are home made or stolen. AR pistols or polymer 80 handguns which I don't think the proposed law will effect much.
Apparently our DA will plead down to a citation for illegal possession of a firearm for an already prohibited possessor having a gun, so I'm not really sure why the cops bother doing the photo shoots of the home assembled guns.
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