The board's server will undergo upgrade maintenance tonight, Nov 5, 2014, beginning approximately around 10 PM ET. Prepare for some possible down time during this process.
FAQ    Search

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 137 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 1:33 am 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 187
Obama sycophants won't touch this topic because it impugns their savior, right-wingers won't touch it for fear of being perceived as anti-military.

Friends, your government has declared that it is legal to summarily kill an American citizen that it deems to be an "imminent threat".

Read it and weep, citizen:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/secti ... _Paper.pdf


Last edited by Man in Black on Fri May 10, 2013 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 1:39 am 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 187
Fellow citizens, did you know that your government summarily executed a 16 year old American citizen on 10/04/2011?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02 ... versy?lite

Hard to believe, isn't it?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 12:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 3:24 pm
Posts: 3076
Location: Death Machine Inc's HQ
CAIR should sue the Obama for "disparate impact" in the GWOT and watch the liberals' heads exploded with the paradox.

_________________
the sentinel remains vigilant


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 4:47 pm 
Online
User avatar
Worst Moderator
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:48 pm
Posts: 51407
I mean, if the dude is a terrorist, go for it.

_________________
Clouuuuds Rolll byyy...BANG BANG BANG BANG


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 8:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 1111
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I mean, if the dude is a terrorist, go for it.

exactly. attacks on the drone program based on "american citizen" come across pretty flat to me. i'm troubled by the drone program in many ways, but this is not one of them.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 8:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 3:24 pm
Posts: 3076
Location: Death Machine Inc's HQ
dkfan9 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I mean, if the dude is a terrorist, go for it.

exactly. attacks on the drone program based on "american citizen" come across pretty flat to me. i'm troubled by the drone program in many ways, but this is not one of them.


It's the due process argument. There is a common belief the suspect should have a trial prior to execution, though if the person is actively aiding known terrorists it becomes a bit murky.

_________________
the sentinel remains vigilant


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 8:37 pm 
Offline
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 03, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 2883
If they start flying drones over American cities, I'd be more concerned.

The people they killed identified themselves as Al Queda. The US government is at war with Al Queda.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 8:43 pm 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am
Posts: 173
Some questions I've heard raised (and think should be answered)...

How much evidence does the government need before it can target an American?

Does the target have any chance to surrender, and if so, how would he know he's a target?

Does this apply to Americans in the Middle East? All Americans abroad? Can an American be taken out on US soil?

As people have pointed out before - it isn't just this administration, in this context, that we need to worry about.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 8:47 pm 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am
Posts: 173
Also, those "white papers" said that these actions can be carried out by a "high level official." I think we have a right to know who can and can't carry out these actions.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 10:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 16, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Wrigleyville
Rob wrote:
Some questions I've heard raised (and think should be answered)...

How much evidence does the government need before it can target an American?

Does the target have any chance to surrender, and if so, how would he know he's a target?

Does this apply to Americans in the Middle East? All Americans abroad? Can an American be taken out on US soil?

As people have pointed out before - it isn't just this administration, in this context, that we need to worry about.


Doesn't answer all of your questions, but:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21350437

The US Central Intelligence Agency has been operating a secret airbase for unmanned drones in Saudi Arabia for the past two years.

The facility was established to hunt for members of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which is based in Yemen.

A drone flown from there was used in September 2011 to kill Anwar al-Awlaki, a US-born cleric who was alleged to be AQAP's external operations chief.

US media have known of its existence since then, but have not reported it.

Senior government officials had said they were concerned that disclosure would undermine operations against AQAP, as well as potentially damage counter-terrorism collaboration with Saudi Arabia.

The revelation that US drone strikes against militants in Yemen have been launched from a secret base inside Saudi Arabia will be an embarrassment for the government in Riyadh.

King Abdullah has embarked upon a gradual process of reform in the face of a conservative religious elite who strongly object to the presence of foreign non-Muslim troops in the country.

Saudi Arabia is home to Islam's two holiest sites and the deployment of US forces there in the 1990s was seen as an historic betrayal. The campaign for their withdrawal became a rallying cry for al-Qaeda and its late Saudi-born leader, Osama bin Laden.

The Washington Post reported that President Barack Obama's counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan, a former CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia, played a key role in negotiations with the government in Riyadh over building the drone base.

Senators are expected to ask Mr Brennan about drone strikes, the memo and the killing of Awlaki when he faces a confirmation hearing on his nomination to become the new CIA director on Thursday.

The location of the secret drone base was not revealed in the US reports.

However, construction was ordered after a December 2009 cruise missile strike in Yemen, according to the New York Times.

It was the first strike ordered by the Obama administration, and ended in disaster, with dozens of civilians, including women and children, killed.

US officials told the newspaper that the first time the CIA used the secret facility was to kill Awlaki.

Since then, the CIA has been "given the mission of hunting and killing 'high-value targets' in Yemen" - the leaders of AQAP who government lawyers had determined posed a direct threat to the US - the officials added.

The New York Times published its report on Tuesday night, ending an "informal arrangement" among several news organisations not to disclose the location of the base.

News organisations had been complying with a request from Obama administration officials, who said it might undermine operations and collaboration with Saudi Arabia, the Washington Post reported.

Two other Americans, including Awlaki's 16-year-old son, have also been killed in US strikes in Yemen, which can reportedly be launched without the permission of the country's government.

Kristian Coates-Ulrichsen, an expert on Gulf politics at the London School of Economics, told the BBC that Saudi anxieties about the growing threat of AQAP would have been behind the government's decision to allow the US to fly drones from inside the kingdom.

"The Saudis see AQAP as a very real threat to their domestic security," he said. "They are worried about attacks on their energy infrastructure and on the royal family, so it fit their strategy to allow the drone attacks."

The existence of the base was likely a "sensitive issue" for both Washington and Riyadh, Mr Coates-Ulrichsen added.

Leaked memo
A source close to the Saudi Interior Minister, Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, declined to comment when contacted by the BBC.


Anwar al-Awlaki was among three Americans killed in drone strikes in Yemen in 2011
Saudi Arabia is home to some of Islam's holiest sites and the deployment of US forces there was seen as a historic betrayal by many Islamists, notably the late leader of al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden.

It was one of the main reasons given by the Saudi-born militant to justify violence against the US and its allies.

The revelation of the drone base came shortly after the leaking of a US justice department memo detailing the Obama administration's case for killing any American abroad who is accused of being a "senior, operational leader" of al-Qaeda or its allies.

Lethal force is lawful if they are deemed to pose an "imminent threat" and their capture is not feasible, the memo says.

The threat does not have to be based on intelligence about a specific attack, since such actions are being "continually" planned by al-Qaeda, it adds.

NBC News said it was given to members of the US Senate intelligence and judiciary committees as a summary of a classified memo on the targeted killings of US citizens prepared by the justice department.

The latter memo was written before the drone strike that killed Awlaki.

Under President Obama, the US has expanded its use of drones to kill hundreds of al-Qaeda suspects in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Yemen. It says it is acting in self-defence in accordance with international law.

Critics argue the drone strikes amount to execution without trial and cause many civilian casualties.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Wed February 06, 2013 11:19 pm 
Offline
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 1422
If I identify myself as a member of Al Qaeda and mail them a check, do I become a fair target? How many steps removed from carrying arms or knowingly participating in operations do I need to be to avoid getting droned?

That of course is entirely seperate from how accurate our intel is. I wonder how many disputes between neighbors in Waziristan have been settled by hellfire missiles.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar
The Master
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 51538
Location: Sector 7-G
I'm pretty sure mailing Al Qaeda a check doesn't qualify you as a "senior operational leader".


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 2:36 am 
Offline
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 1422
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I'm pretty sure mailing Al Qaeda a check doesn't qualify you as a "senior operational leader".


We've been targeting rather less than 'senior' members for a while now. 16 year olds are senior operational leaders? Unless this is the Boy Scouts, I rather doubt it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 2:39 am 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 22027
Do I have this right,
A drone is cheaper and more cost effective in taking out a suspected terrorist (collateral damage/other US citizens included) than sending in a SWAT team, arresting him and going through due proces legally?

in effect, America is going to be bombing its own citizens?

_________________
durdencommatyler wrote:
dimejinky-the Han Solo of RM.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 3:26 am 
Offline
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 1422
dimejinky99 wrote:
Do I have this right,
A drone is cheaper and more cost effective in taking out a suspected terrorist (collateral damage/other US citizens included) than sending in a SWAT team, arresting him and going through due proces legally?

in effect, America is going to be bombing its own citizens?


Why bother arresting him? Just claim he was making a furtive movement to his waistband. For extra credit, place a bread knife anywhere within 15 feet of the body and claim he was menacing you. The review board will buy it. That is the kind of crap that flies domestically so you can imagine what they can get away with overseas.

You do bring up another issue with drones, which is that it makes it too easy to take out 'enemies'. We made the effort to send several helicopters into foreign airspace without approval for Bin Laden. Preumably we would have done something similar for legitimately 'senior' Al Qaeda members. Would we have even imagined doing that for the vast majority of those killed via drones? If not, why not? If they were such a dire threat, why not send special forces after them? If its not worth the risk, then maybe they aren't such a big threat after all and killing a family of 8 just to take them out isn't worth it either.

I am with dkfan on citizenship not being a factor, however. If they are illegal combatants they can be arrested and tried just like anyone else (or killed if they are engaged in hostilities). Similary, it doesn't matter what their citizenship is if they fall under our jurisdiction - they receive the same right to due process. The problem is the governments expansive definition of 'hostilities' and no real oversight. If only the congressional branch had balls...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 3:51 am 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 22027
I'm guesing the drone project Obama's response to his failure to close Guantanamo.

_________________
durdencommatyler wrote:
dimejinky-the Han Solo of RM.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 4:09 am 
Offline
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 1422
dimejinky99 wrote:
I'm guesing the drone project Obama's response to his failure to close Guantanamo.


I'm not sure how one offsets the other.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 8:02 am 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 187
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I mean, if the dude is a terrorist, go for it.



Image

I thank you for being a patriotic American, citizen.
Let me tell you about the time we vaporized five of 'em:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/06/world ... zards.html

Three were bad, two were good.

That's what we in the White House refer to as, an "acceptable ratio".


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 8:23 am 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 187
Electromatic wrote:
If they start flying drones over American cities, I'd be more concerned.

The people they killed identified themselves as Al Queda. The US government is at war with Al Queda.


Image

I thank you for your defense of the Mother land, kind patriot.

Our drone strikes are surgical and precise, we kill only terrorists.

Please ignore propaganda such as this:

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/06/09/th ... ouble-tap/

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-drone ... an-2012-12

http://www.policymic.com/articles/21070 ... s-by-obama

http://elitedaily.com/elite/2012/study- ... -pakistan/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ja ... ne-strikes

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74771.html

http://www.technewsdaily.com/15930-dron ... e-tap.html

Remember, let us not worry that God is on our side, but rather that we are on God's side.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Back by unpopular demand... US drone program
PostPosted: Thu February 07, 2013 8:33 am 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 187
Image

My dear Americans, I'd like to report to you with pride, honor, and patriotism, and with the blessing of our dear leader, the termination of over one hundred terrorists through our precision drone strike program:

http://droneswatch.org/2013/01/20/list- ... and-yemen/


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 137 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: E.H. Ruddock, McParadigm and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Tue October 16, 2018 11:09 pm