Ethno-Masochism in the West.

[Dev]

Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.

Last edited by Dev on Tue January 26, 2016 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[McParadigm]

I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen string evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky

[Green Habit]

I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen string evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky

You could make an argument that being more informed makes you more susceptible.

[Dev]

I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

[McParadigm]

I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen strong evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky

You could make an argument that being more informed makes you more susceptible.

Absolutely.

[Green Habit]

I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

[Dev]

I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

[Dev]

I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

[BurtReynolds]

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Last edited by BurtReynolds on Mon March 06, 2023 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[stip]

It was very interesting for me to read the criticisms that Howard Zinn had of the New Deal in his youth, and the way age and the collapse of liberalism's public legitimacy transformed his read.

[nyquillyn]

I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

That's more or less how I feel about Bernie.

[Dev]

I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

That's more or less how I feel about Bernie.

But socialism IS the only solution to capitalism, so while I can't vouch for the rhetoric he uses, I am a fan of Bernie's pseudo-socialism.

[Green Habit]

It was very interesting for me to read the criticisms that Howard Zinn had of the New Deal in his youth, and the way age and the collapse of liberalism's public legitimacy transformed his read.

Is there any good link to that? Criticism of the New Deal usually comes from the right, but it's been interesting recently to hear some criticisms from the left as well--usually centered around the fact that it entrenched Jim Crow for another couple decades.

[McParadigm]

I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

My own opinion, also deftly manipulated by those dominant undercurrents that are faulty human perception, is that modern western civilization is built on a series of self-confirmed lies. Lies that say that what we have...the comfort, the access, the safety and quiet...is normal. Lies that say that if life is harder and crueler elsewhere then that's a tragedy because that's not what life is supposed to be.

I don't have faith in the life of that lie here, let alone hope that it can be spread the whole world wide.

[Dev]

I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

My own opinion, also deftly manipulated by those dominant undercurrents that are faulty human perception, is that modern western civilization is built on a series of self-confirmed lies. Lies that say that what we have...the comfort, the access, the safety and quiet...is normal. Lies that say that if life is harder and crueler elsewhere then that's a tragedy because that's not what life is supposed to be.

I don't have faith in the life of that lie here, let alone hope that it can be spread the whole world wide.

but why exactly is it a lie? because of what it costs? or is it simply that you believe there is no virtue in a comfortable life?

[96583UP]

Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Yes.

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair?

No.

Does Noam Chomsky believe that football is training in authoritarian jingoism?

Yes.

Is Noam Chomsky familiar with Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)?

Yes.

How does Noam Chomsky feel about anarcho-syndicalism?

That it's a great idea.

If it's such a great idea, why aren't we doing it?

Because we are spectators being manipulated by a representative democracy that exists to protect the minority of the opulent.

How does me playing football fix that?

Because you get to impact the outcome of the play.

But I could end up with CTE and perpetually irritable and many of the simple things in life will be ruined by a fog of misery?

Welcome to the world of Noam Chomsky.

[b_i_revisited]

Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.

I would ask you:

Why do you feel the need to view the "west" in negative terms? Who taught you to feel this way?

[Dev]

Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.

I would ask you:

Why do you feel the need to view the "west" in negative terms? Who taught you to feel this way?

Oh, I'm against it. I think the west is the best place in the world. I think contemporary liberalism is seriously misguided.