The board's server will undergo upgrade maintenance tonight, Nov 5, 2014, beginning approximately around 10 PM ET. Prepare for some possible down time during this process.
FAQ    Search

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Last edited by Dev on Tue January 26, 2016 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
10Club Complaint Department
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am
Posts: 15227
I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen string evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky

_________________
Cell Phone Songs



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Site Admin
 Profile

Joined: Wed December 12, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 5594
McParadigm wrote:
I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen string evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky
You could make an argument that being more informed makes you more susceptible.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
10Club Complaint Department
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am
Posts: 15227
Green Habit wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
I think that very nearly all political postulating occurs in just two steps:

1. Feel that an idea or philosophy is true
2. Experience confirmation bias

I don't believe I've seen strong evidence that being more informed makes you less susceptible to this.

Even if you are Noam Chomsky
You could make an argument that being more informed makes you more susceptible.

Absolutely.

_________________
Cell Phone Songs



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Site Admin
 Profile

Joined: Wed December 12, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 5594
Dev wrote:
I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.
Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
Green Habit wrote:
Dev wrote:
I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.
Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:45 pm 
Online
User avatar
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm
Posts: 34270
Location: Donkeys live a long time.
shame seems to be the most powerful force in the universe.

Unless you ignore the shamers.

_________________
Death is coming. Eat trash. Be free.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
The worst
 Profile

Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm
Posts: 31729
It was very interesting for me to read the criticisms that Howard Zinn had of the New Deal in his youth, and the way age and the collapse of liberalism's public legitimacy transformed his read.

_________________
So many tournaments, so little time


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:46 pm 
Offline
Fake NYC Setlist Relayer
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:11 pm
Posts: 7703
Dev wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Dev wrote:
I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.
Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

That's more or less how I feel about Bernie.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
turned2black wrote:
Dev wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Dev wrote:
I really hate Noam Chomsky. He says everything like such a c*nt.
Chomsky (and Howard Zinn is another good example) said things that were revelatory and probably necessary back in their younger days when deification US and the West in general was a lot more common and problematic. Now it just seems real tired.

this is basically all liberalism in the 21st century.

That's more or less how I feel about Bernie.

But socialism IS the only solution to capitalism, so while I can't vouch for the rhetoric he uses, I am a fan of Bernie's pseudo-socialism.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Site Admin
 Profile

Joined: Wed December 12, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 5594
stip wrote:
It was very interesting for me to read the criticisms that Howard Zinn had of the New Deal in his youth, and the way age and the collapse of liberalism's public legitimacy transformed his read.
Is there any good link to that? Criticism of the New Deal usually comes from the right, but it's been interesting recently to hear some criticisms from the left as well--usually centered around the fact that it entrenched Jim Crow for another couple decades.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar
10Club Complaint Department
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 1:56 am
Posts: 15227
Dev wrote:
I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

My own opinion, also deftly manipulated by those dominant undercurrents that are faulty human perception, is that modern western civilization is built on a series of self-confirmed lies. Lies that say that what we have...the comfort, the access, the safety and quiet...is normal. Lies that say that if life is harder and crueler elsewhere then that's a tragedy because that's not what life is supposed to be.

I don't have faith in the life of that lie here, let alone hope that it can be spread the whole world wide.

_________________
Cell Phone Songs



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Tue January 26, 2016 9:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
McParadigm wrote:
Dev wrote:
I'm happy for your meta-analysis of political opinion, but feel like you didn't really engage the original debate, mcparry.

My own opinion, also deftly manipulated by those dominant undercurrents that are faulty human perception, is that modern western civilization is built on a series of self-confirmed lies. Lies that say that what we have...the comfort, the access, the safety and quiet...is normal. Lies that say that if life is harder and crueler elsewhere then that's a tragedy because that's not what life is supposed to be.

I don't have faith in the life of that lie here, let alone hope that it can be spread the whole world wide.


but why exactly is it a lie? because of what it costs? or is it simply that you believe there is no virtue in a comfortable life?

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Wed January 27, 2016 2:52 am 
Offline
User avatar
Mind Your Tanners
 Profile

Joined: Sun September 15, 2013 5:50 am
Posts: 9115
Dev wrote:
Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?


Yes.

Dev wrote:
Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair?


No.

96583UP wrote:
Does Noam Chomsky believe that football is training in authoritarian jingoism?


Yes.

96583UP wrote:
Is Noam Chomsky familiar with Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)?


Yes.

96583UP wrote:
How does Noam Chomsky feel about anarcho-syndicalism?


That it's a great idea.

96583UP wrote:
If it's such a great idea, why aren't we doing it?


Because we are spectators being manipulated by a representative democracy that exists to protect the minority of the opulent.

96583UP wrote:
How does me playing football fix that?


Because you get to impact the outcome of the play.

96583UP wrote:
But I could end up with CTE and perpetually irritable and many of the simple things in life will be ruined by a fog of misery?


Welcome to the world of Noam Chomsky.

_________________
Pollster Rights for All


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Wed January 27, 2016 11:48 am 
Offline
Broken Tamborine
 Profile

Joined: Mon October 26, 2015 2:04 pm
Posts: 305
Dev wrote:
Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.



I would ask you:

Why do you feel the need to view the "west" in negative terms? Who taught you to feel this way?

_________________
Alex wrote:
i wonder what the supermassive jackhole broken iris would have thought about this

http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=1278


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Ethno-Masochism in the West.
PostPosted: Wed January 27, 2016 10:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
NEVER STOP JAMMING!
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:46 pm
Posts: 21661
b_i_revisited wrote:
Dev wrote:
Is it a problem to always think of the west in negative terms?

Here Noam Chomsky refers to the US and Britain as the greatest evils in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5W ... re&t=8m10s

Is that fair? I get that our colonialism/imperialism is evil, but we also provide a high quality of life for our own citizens. People in the west enjoy many liberties that others do not.



I would ask you:

Why do you feel the need to view the "west" in negative terms? Who taught you to feel this way?


Oh, I'm against it. I think the west is the best place in the world. I think contemporary liberalism is seriously misguided.

_________________
Kanye West wrote:
They told me I was in a sunken place.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Wed October 17, 2018 8:36 am