The Refugee Crisis

[b_i_revisited]

As of now the refugees are supposed to return to their home countries once the situation there stabilizes which is why camps are the solution of choice being temporary by design.

Perhaps this is why we view the situation so differently. I do not believe this will happen, at least not by their choice. Why would a family return to burned-out husks of towns that will remain when the West is done playing game of thrones over there when they could live in France or Scandinavia on the local taxpayer's dime?

[Mine]

Because it's their home - as naive as that sounds. It happened recently with the refugees from the ex-Yugoslavia countries when the situation settled there.

Immigrants don't live on the local taxpayers money. They've been taking jobs locals don't accept in part because of how ridiculously underpaid they are, it's been going on for decades. You'd have a hard time trying to find fruit and vegetable from Italy that wasn't picked by an immigrant from Africa.
What benefits they may be getting will stop once they are supposed to return home.

[Birds in Hell]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rants.html

A leaked report into a surge in sex crimes by immigrants at German public swimming pools is a 'grave concern', according to officials.

The secret report's authenticity has been confirmed by the authorities in Dusseldorf which outlines the particular worry over rapes and sexual abuse of children.

It comes just months after the nightmare scenes in Cologne on New Year's Eve when hundreds of women were sexually abused by marauding gangs of migrants and less than a month since an Iraqi migrant was jailed for raping a 10-year-old boy in an Austrian swimming pool.

[Jorge]

That's a really bad article, Spenno. It offers no evidence of the supposed surge, mentions two disparate cases (the migrant boy in the swimming pool, the 13 year old who made the false allegation), reiterates the NYE disturbances twice, and cites sensationalist tabloid Bild as its only source on the specifics of the report. I would be interested in reading a more serious article on this topic, though.

[96583UP]

agreed, and so would Pete Townshend; but for research purposes only, of course

[Birds in Hell]

It's a brief news blurb, not a piece of investigative journalism. I agree, the latter would be welcome.

[BurtReynolds]

I don't know about that stuff, but what's really concerning is that German media refused to report on the Cologne assaults for several days and the government's response was pathetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year% ... in_Germany

Last edited by BurtReynolds on Tue July 05, 2016 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Jorge]

It's a brief news blurb, not a piece of investigative journalism. I agree, the latter would be welcome.

Right, it's a bad news blurb, in addition to being a blurb about bad news

[Birds in Hell]

It's a brief news blurb, not a piece of investigative journalism. I agree, the latter would be welcome.

Right, it's a bad news blurb, in addition to being a blurb about bad news

I'd hesitate to say it's "bad news" (though, in the most common sense of the term, it is) unless there's something to suggest that there's no truth to the report; that there, in fact, hasn't been an increase in sexual assualts; if the increase is real, that the attacks haven't been primarily carried out by migrants, etc.

EDIT: I...didn't really understand your post when I first read it, which was in a fleeting glance at my phone when I was at work earlier. Look, you get the gist of what I mean - hopefully.

[Norris]

It's a brief news blurb, not a piece of investigative journalism. I agree, the latter would be welcome.

Right, it's a bad news blurb, in addition to being a blurb about bad news

I'd hesitate to say it's "bad news" (though, in the most common sense of the term, it is) unless there's something to suggest that there's no truth to the report; that there, in fact, hasn't been an increase in sexual assualts; if the increase is real, that the attacks haven't been primarily carried out by migrants, etc.

EDIT: I...didn't really understand your post when I first read it, which was in a fleeting glance at my phone when I was at work earlier. Look, you get the gist of what I mean - hopefully.

Wait, you're saying it's not bad news because you can't prove it's wrong? That's now how proving things works.

[b_i_revisited]

The host countries make it extremely difficult to track migrant crime rates, so the reports that exist are non-specific. In the case of Sweden, it is my understanding that rape/sexual assault has skyrocketed over 1000% in the last 15 years , the same timeframe in which the nation opened it's borders to deal with low birth rates. That does not mean the immigrants are all rapey, but there is a strong correlation there.

[jwfocker]

The host countries make it extremely difficult to track migrant crime rates, so the reports that exist are non-specific. In the case of Sweden, it is my understanding that rape/sexual assault has skyrocketed over 1000% in the last 15 years , the same timeframe in which the nation opened it's borders to deal with low birth rates. That does not mean the immigrants are all rapey, but there is a strong correlation there.

That sounds incredibly absurd.

[Bi_3]

The host countries make it extremely difficult to track migrant crime rates, so the reports that exist are non-specific. In the case of Sweden, it is my understanding that rape/sexual assault has skyrocketed over 1000% in the last 15 years , the same timeframe in which the nation opened it's borders to deal with low birth rates. That does not mean the immigrants are all rapey, but there is a strong correlation there.

That sounds incredibly absurd.

Which part? The non-specific definition of rape there distorts that stats even further. I in no way implied those two elements are causally related, only correlated. But it becomes very to difficult to determine immigrations effects on crime rates because of inconsistent definitions of crime and race and nationality between countries and regions.

[jwfocker]

The host countries make it extremely difficult to track migrant crime rates, so the reports that exist are non-specific. In the case of Sweden, it is my understanding that rape/sexual assault has skyrocketed over 1000% in the last 15 years , the same timeframe in which the nation opened it's borders to deal with low birth rates. That does not mean the immigrants are all rapey, but there is a strong correlation there.

That sounds incredibly absurd.

Which part? The non-specific definition of rape there distorts that stats even further. I in no way implied those two elements are causally related, only correlated. But it becomes very to difficult to determine immigrations effects on crime rates because of inconsistent definitions of crime and race and nationality between countries and regions.

The whole damn paragraph read like a attempt to troll people. Throwing up some random, extreme stat with no data to back it up while callously relating it back to immigration is a sad move. Information containing assaults and/or sexual assaults can be incredibly misleading and crime related data contain a shit load of variables. This does nothing to support a argument or start an argument.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I bet it all members of RM moved to the same community, sex-related crimes would go up there. Mostly male on male though

[Kaius]

Aww yiss

[jwfocker]

I bet it all members of RM moved to the same community, sex-related crimes would go up there. Mostly male on male though

Hahaha yep.

My main issue is assault related crimes are committed by people that know each other - by a overwhelming amount of the time. We're talking like 80 to 90 percent of the time. So stats like a 1000 percent increase and taking that number and relating it back to immigration is a gross misrepresentation of data.

[BurtReynolds]

The host countries make it extremely difficult to track migrant crime rates, so the reports that exist are non-specific. In the case of Sweden, it is my understanding that rape/sexual assault has skyrocketed over 1000% in the last 15 years , the same timeframe in which the nation opened it's borders to deal with low birth rates. That does not mean the immigrants are all rapey, but there is a strong correlation there.

That sounds incredibly absurd.

Which part? The non-specific definition of rape there distorts that stats even further. I in no way implied those two elements are causally related, only correlated. But it becomes very to difficult to determine immigrations effects on crime rates because of inconsistent definitions of crime and race and nationality between countries and regions.

The whole damn paragraph read like a attempt to troll people. Throwing up some random, extreme stat with no data to back it up while callously relating it back to immigration is a sad move. Information containing assaults and/or sexual assaults can be incredibly misleading and crime related data contain a shit load of variables. This does nothing to support a argument or start an argument.

1000% sounds like a lot, but when it was practically nonexistent before, any change adds up fast. Swedes aren't that rapey.

[b_i_revisited]

I bet it all members of RM moved to the same community, sex-related crimes would go up there. Mostly male on male though

Hahaha yep.

My main issue is assault related crimes are committed by people that know each other - by a overwhelming amount of the time. We're talking like 80 to 90 percent of the time. So stats like a 1000 percent increase and taking that number and relating it back to immigration is a gross misrepresentation of data.

Edit: I'm going to write a coherent response later.

[b_i_revisited]

Alright, so let me explain:

- The context of the post was in response to the post directly above it.
- I specifically deny causation, the correlation is real, but the association was in response to the post directly above it.

But:

- Sweden changed the definition of rape in the country (the primary driver for the 1000% increase) around the same time it opened it's borders
- Sweden responded to a highly critical UN report on the treatment of rape victims in the country by prioritize enforcement
- Sweden does not track/publish crime statistics for immigrants
- Recently, Sweden has been at the center of several high profile rape cases where the offenders are immigrants

So it's not that unreasonable that such a perception would exist, is it? Combine this with the recent incidents of activists covering up their own assaults or apologizing to their rapists in order to not appear damage the migrant cause, how is anyone going to know what's actually going on? Who do you believe?