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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 5:43 pm 
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The Master
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Is that in reference to private citizens, though, or just employers?

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 6:18 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Is that in reference to private citizens, though, or just employers?
Our human rights tribunal for sure apply to employers, so a university teacher could be taken to a human rights tribunal for using the wrong pronoun. I think it applies to all citizens but am not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 6:20 pm 
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I think people should use manners. I think people should use preferred pronouns. In both cases I don't think the government should be compelling people to do either.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 6:31 pm 
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I would agree, but employers rightfully have to play by different rules to create an inclusive workplace. If that law applies to private citizens, though, then that is a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 6:52 pm 
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It's utterly fucking ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Seems like you could protect transgendered individuals from discrimination without wading into the impossible-to-master world of "correct" pronouns.

Does this mean if you beat up a transgendered guy and call him "dude," but he prefers to be called "she" that you're guilty of a hate crime?

I figure you could have written a law that didn't require me to ask that question.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Well I mean hate crimes shouldn't be a thing in the first place so

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 7:15 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Well I mean hate crimes shouldn't be a thing in the first place so


A good topic for debate. Start a thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 8:40 pm 
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B wrote:
Seems like you could protect transgendered individuals from discrimination without wading into the impossible-to-master world of "correct" pronouns.

Does this mean if you beat up a transgendered guy and call him "dude," but he prefers to be called "she" that you're guilty of a hate crime?

I figure you could have written a law that didn't require me to ask that question.



Sorry if my original comment was misleading, the law doesn't mention punishment for misusing pronouns, it says something like "inciting genocide or hatred", but is silent on what inciting hatred actually means or what pronouns are OK... so it's a vague enough for some to think it could mean that misgendering could become punishable. I honestly don't know what to think and agree it should be pretty simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 9:25 pm 
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surfndestroy wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
That criticism is fair, but that seems like a problem with the tribunal itself and not with the specific application to the trans community.
Bill C-16 is open to someone being able to make a human rights complaint because you did not use their preferred pronoun. It is government compelling speech. Any issue I have is not with the Trans community but with government compelled speech.
Right, I agree with that. But I would also say that while the entire concept should be junked, if it's not going to be junked then trans protections should be included.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue June 20, 2017 9:35 pm 
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B wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Well I mean hate crimes shouldn't be a thing in the first place so
A good topic for debate. Start a thread.
I decided to do that just now.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:14 pm 
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behold trudeau's canada

http://globalnews.ca/news/3568563/bc-ba ... arker/amp/

Quote:
In what could be the first case in the world, a B.C. baby has been issued a health card with the letter “U” for a sex marker.

It comes as the baby’s parent fights to allow their child to develop their own gender identity.

“We’re not actually asking to have anyone’s ID changed against their will. We’re just asking to change the structure of how identification, particularly the birth certificate, starts out,” Doty said.

Doty said the goal is for the child to discover their own gender identity — and so far the decision hasn’t been a problem, even when people ask if the baby is a boy or a girl.

“Often I’ll just say I don’t know yet, or I’m not rushing to apply those types of labels on this kid. Right now they’re just a baby.”


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:34 pm 
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--- wrote:
behold trudeau's canada

http://globalnews.ca/news/3568563/bc-ba ... arker/amp/

Quote:
In what could be the first case in the world, a B.C. baby has been issued a health card with the letter “U” for a sex marker.

It comes as the baby’s parent fights to allow their child to develop their own gender identity.

“We’re not actually asking to have anyone’s ID changed against their will. We’re just asking to change the structure of how identification, particularly the birth certificate, starts out,” Doty said.

Doty said the goal is for the child to discover their own gender identity — and so far the decision hasn’t been a problem, even when people ask if the baby is a boy or a girl.

“Often I’ll just say I don’t know yet, or I’m not rushing to apply those types of labels on this kid. Right now they’re just a baby.”



Why isn't the name Barbara Finlay capitalized in that article but their title Human Rights lawyer is?

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Last edited by Bi_3 on Sun July 02, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:35 pm 
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The Master
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--- wrote:
behold trudeau's canada

http://globalnews.ca/news/3568563/bc-ba ... arker/amp/

Quote:
In what could be the first case in the world, a B.C. baby has been issued a health card with the letter “U” for a sex marker.

It comes as the baby’s parent fights to allow their child to develop their own gender identity.

“We’re not actually asking to have anyone’s ID changed against their will. We’re just asking to change the structure of how identification, particularly the birth certificate, starts out,” Doty said.

Doty said the goal is for the child to discover their own gender identity — and so far the decision hasn’t been a problem, even when people ask if the baby is a boy or a girl.

“Often I’ll just say I don’t know yet, or I’m not rushing to apply those types of labels on this kid. Right now they’re just a baby.”

oh no how terrible

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Life is a confusing, horrifying nightmare that only ends in death. There is no hope.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:38 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
--- wrote:
behold trudeau's canada

http://globalnews.ca/news/3568563/bc-ba ... arker/amp/

Quote:
In what could be the first case in the world, a B.C. baby has been issued a health card with the letter “U” for a sex marker.

It comes as the baby’s parent fights to allow their child to develop their own gender identity.

“We’re not actually asking to have anyone’s ID changed against their will. We’re just asking to change the structure of how identification, particularly the birth certificate, starts out,” Doty said.

Doty said the goal is for the child to discover their own gender identity — and so far the decision hasn’t been a problem, even when people ask if the baby is a boy or a girl.

“Often I’ll just say I don’t know yet, or I’m not rushing to apply those types of labels on this kid. Right now they’re just a baby.”

oh no how terrible

i know, science is so two-thousand-and-late


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Considering the amount of psychological stress transgender people undergo trying find and embrace who they are, I totally understand why parents wouldn't want to put any preconceived notions about gender onto them. With stuff like this, I always wonder why anyone who is bothered by it cares. It doesn't affect you at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Also, I'm pretty sure if the child born with a penis turns out to be cis male, then the U on his birth certificate won't really be a big deal to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 6:07 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure if the child born with a penis turns out to be cis male, then the U on his birth certificate won't really be a big deal to him.


Then why have the category at all if 99.7% percent of the population (or whatever the non-trans rate is) don't consider it a big deal? This particular situation reeks of white suburban liberal social signaling vs genuine concern for the well being of mature adults who choose to transition. Kids are going to see the biological differences pretty quickly and deconstruction of the label isnt going to reverse millions of years of mammalian evolution. Better to identify and remove the administrative burdens imposed by the state on the community than to indulge yet another progressive arms race.

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I really hope we get this figured out soon


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure if the child born with a penis turns out to be cis male, then the U on his birth certificate won't really be a big deal to him.


Then why have the category at all if 99.7% percent of the population (or whatever the non-trans rate is) don't consider it a big deal? This particular situation reeks of white suburban liberal social signaling vs genuine concern for the well being of mature adults who choose to transition. Kids are going to see the biological differences pretty quickly and deconstruction of the label isnt going to reverse millions of years of mammalian evolution. Better to identify and remove the administrative burdens imposed by the state on the community than to indulge yet another progressive arms race.

Okay, but we do have the category right now, so that suggestion is of no practical use.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 02, 2017 6:48 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure if the child born with a penis turns out to be cis male, then the U on his birth certificate won't really be a big deal to him.


Then why have the category at all if 99.7% percent of the population (or whatever the non-trans rate is) don't consider it a big deal? This particular situation reeks of white suburban liberal social signaling vs genuine concern for the well being of mature adults who choose to transition. Kids are going to see the biological differences pretty quickly and deconstruction of the label isnt going to reverse millions of years of mammalian evolution. Better to identify and remove the administrative burdens imposed by the state on the community than to indulge yet another progressive arms race.

Okay, but we do have the category right now, so that suggestion is of no practical use.


Mark everyone "M" and move on to real issues.

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