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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 2:47 pm 
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I was born in North Carolina, and lived in SC for middle and high school, then college and post college. I've also spent a good deal of time in Virginia, which gets very Southern, once you get away from the DC Metro Area. Still though, VA feels different than other Southern states. It has a good to excellent public schools systems, and Universities, it's an affluent state (largely due to Fairfax/Alexandria/Arlington/Louden), and is pretty "purple" for Political Elections. So, I don't typically think of it when I think of "The South", but, well, Richmond, VA was the capitol of the CSA. So, on the other hand, it's definitely "The South".

Anyway, the point is, I think of myself more as a southerner than a northerner. But, the good 'ol boys and the religious right sure wouldn't claim me.

As for the Confederate Flag, it's a hot rod issue down there. On the one hand, people view it akin to the swastika. Yet others, non-good 'ol boys / non-racist, don't have issue with it, if used in a historical context. For example, a War Memorial that shows the various Flags of the Confederacy, or Museum - http://www.moc.org/collections-archives ... onfederacy, or you go to Bull Run, or something along those lines. Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).

But...when the State issues something, like a Texas License Plate, or it's displayed on the State Capitol Grounds (SC), then well, I think you're just asking for trouble. It seems people that support it are literally, rebel rousers, or maybe even racists. I think few who view the CSA like I do, no problem with talking history / family history with those who fought in the war, would ever get Rebel Flag bumper stickers, or stuff like that. I think it's tacky, shows ignorance, and just says "hey, I'm a racist, let's fight!".


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:11 pm 
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I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:12 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

you should probably move

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:13 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

you should probably move

No, here at the beach it is mostly relocated northerners, so it isn't a thing. But if I'm on a survey job inland on some 100 acre swamp/farm, it is common.

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:19 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

you should probably move

No, here at the beach it is mostly relocated northerners, so it isn't a thing. But if I'm on a survey job inland on some 100 acre swamp/farm, it is common.


The swamps in South Carolina are beautiful.

http://www.sciway.net/sc-photos/dillon- ... lpond.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:30 pm 
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darth_vedder wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

you should probably move

No, here at the beach it is mostly relocated northerners, so it isn't a thing. But if I'm on a survey job inland on some 100 acre swamp/farm, it is common.


The swamps in South Carolina are beautiful.

http://www.sciway.net/sc-photos/dillon- ... lpond.html

Not when you are sludging through them trying to avoid gators, copperheads, and cottonmouths.

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 3:55 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
I regularly run into country boys here that still use the "n" word without second thought.

you should probably move

No, here at the beach it is mostly relocated northerners, so it isn't a thing. But if I'm on a survey job inland on some 100 acre swamp/farm, it is common.


The swamps in South Carolina are beautiful.

http://www.sciway.net/sc-photos/dillon- ... lpond.html

Not when you are sludging through them trying to avoid gators, copperheads, and cottonmouths.


I meant looking at them via pictures. I'm too chicken shit to go walking around in them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Fri June 19, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Being from Mississippi (aka the Racist State if you go by the national media), its pretty common. Many there don't look at it as a racist thing (though many do). Its such a hotbutton issue in South Carolina, yet its not a blip on the radar in MS (I think the last time they tried to remove it the bill was defeated by 85%).

As with most issues, its two groups of people refusing to take arguments at face value and arguing over each other's heads.

What gets me is that at its core, the confederate flag is THE anti-United States symbol. I think many see it as a sign of rebellion. So why is it flown over government buildings? Probably not a good idea. Flags are kinda stupid in general, but perhaps they should be representative of as many people as possible.

At the same time, I can't see much good out of trying to ban it either. That sort of thing tends to only make things worse. THe more you try to bury things and shame people, the more they will fight you on it.

Also, let's just break up the union!

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 12:06 pm 
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I'm calling bullshit on darth_ being a southerner. No southerner would ever call it "Bull Run."

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 1:55 pm 
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^ :lol:

I meant the Battle of Manassas (although Bull Run sounds cooler).


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 3:11 pm 
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darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 3:36 pm 
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bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


I knew people like that. I mean, WW2 was 60 years ago, should we forget about them too? It's not like those people have Confederate stuff on full display. They're not flying a flag or wear t-shirts, or have bumper stickers on their car or anything like that. However, they view the flag, in the proper context, as a sign of Southern Pride, and Heritage, not racism. Believe what you want, I don't really care, I'm just telling you what I've seen / heard.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Where I live is now part of suburban Atlanta but growing up there was it was much more rural. Even in 70s seeing a confederate flag or hearing the N word was nothing unusual; I even remember a couple times seeing KKK members handing out flyers as a very young child. Older family members would say the word but I was taught it was a bad word to call people and I shouldn't use bad words. So I didn't. I remember a local restaurant as a kid called Johnny Reb's and it was decorated with a civil war theme. It was country style place and no one thought anything about it but that would never go over today. I started hearing the N word a lot less in early 80s and I very rarely heard it spoken among friends as I got older. Even when I went to college in south Georgia I was surprised the couple times I would hear it mentioned casually with white friends. By now it was the 90s and the word was used almost exclusively by black people when I heard it.
Personally that word is much more offensive to me than the Confederate flag. I see it as more of a redneck pride symbol than a racist one unless it's an overt example. I associate it with blue collar guys who love muddin', old time NASCAR and can carry on long conversations about deer stands more than I do "white power". Again, sometimes that though is the clear intention but not in the vast majority of times I see it today.
There is a historical presence with the Confederate and if used in that context, like a memorial, I am not offended or think "redneck". And of course the flag is more identified with the south because that is where the Confederacy was and most of the Civil War took place. Outside of major cities there was no influx of new people with new ideas and new ways of seeing things so mindsets didn't change. As television became popular, and even more so with the internet, these attitudes have slowly eroded with each new generation.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 5:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sat June 20, 2015 8:22 pm 
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The flowers are a nice touch

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sun June 21, 2015 3:13 am 
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darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


I knew people like that. I mean, WW2 was 60 years ago, should we forget about them too? It's not like those people have Confederate stuff on full display. They're not flying a flag or wear t-shirts, or have bumper stickers on their car or anything like that. However, they view the flag, in the proper context, as a sign of Southern Pride, and Heritage, not racism. Believe what you want, I don't really care, I'm just telling you what I've seen / heard.



I'd talk about this more but I don't feel like typing it out.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sun June 21, 2015 3:21 am 
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There was a "take down the flag" rally at the statehouse today. Here is a screenshot of some comments on the local news Facebook page, to give you an idea of how it is still a heated subject here:

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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sun June 21, 2015 3:42 pm 
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bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


I knew people like that. I mean, WW2 was 60 years ago, should we forget about them too? It's not like those people have Confederate stuff on full display. They're not flying a flag or wear t-shirts, or have bumper stickers on their car or anything like that. However, they view the flag, in the proper context, as a sign of Southern Pride, and Heritage, not racism. Believe what you want, I don't really care, I'm just telling you what I've seen / heard.



I'd talk about this more but I don't feel like typing it out.


You seem to imply that I have some dog in this fight. I don't. I don't really care. I really don't spend any time at all, until the recent few days, even thinking about the confederate flag.

My stance is, I don't think governments (state/local/feds) should sanction anything with it (grounds, license plates, etc...). But if a individual at his private residence, or on his private property decides the fly it, wear it, whatever, I don't care. That's their call. I think it's tacky, rednecky, trashy, etc..., but whatevs...If redneck Johnny puts a bumper sticker on his car, so be it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sun June 21, 2015 6:10 pm 
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darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


I knew people like that. I mean, WW2 was 60 years ago, should we forget about them too? It's not like those people have Confederate stuff on full display. They're not flying a flag or wear t-shirts, or have bumper stickers on their car or anything like that. However, they view the flag, in the proper context, as a sign of Southern Pride, and Heritage, not racism. Believe what you want, I don't really care, I'm just telling you what I've seen / heard.



I'd talk about this more but I don't feel like typing it out.


You seem to imply that I have some dog in this fight. I don't. I don't really care. I really don't spend any time at all, until the recent few days, even thinking about the confederate flag.

My stance is, I don't think governments (state/local/feds) should sanction anything with it (grounds, license plates, etc...). But if a individual at his private residence, or on his private property decides the fly it, wear it, whatever, I don't care. That's their call. I think it's tacky, rednecky, trashy, etc..., but whatevs...If redneck Johnny puts a bumper sticker on his car, so be it.


Just a misreading of my question friend. It wasn't directed at you primarily but to the thread about the notion that displaying the flag was honoring soldiers who died in the Civil War. I was curious what people thought of that. I didn't think it was your position just "other peoples" positions. Folks you know. I could tell you took it wrong with the 'I don't care what you think" reply and kind of lost interest at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: The Confederate Flag
PostPosted: Sun June 21, 2015 6:24 pm 
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bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
bada wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
Some of these people even had kin who fought for the CSA. They want to honor/pay respect the men / boys, who died. So, in that context, I don't really have a problem displaying a Confederate Flag and learning about the Civil War (War Between The States as it's called in the South).


I'm not sure about this one. Do people really care that there great great great grand uncle died 150 odd years ago and if they do is it really necessary to honor them with a flag synonymous with slavery?


I knew people like that. I mean, WW2 was 60 years ago, should we forget about them too? It's not like those people have Confederate stuff on full display. They're not flying a flag or wear t-shirts, or have bumper stickers on their car or anything like that. However, they view the flag, in the proper context, as a sign of Southern Pride, and Heritage, not racism. Believe what you want, I don't really care, I'm just telling you what I've seen / heard.



I'd talk about this more but I don't feel like typing it out.


You seem to imply that I have some dog in this fight. I don't. I don't really care. I really don't spend any time at all, until the recent few days, even thinking about the confederate flag.

My stance is, I don't think governments (state/local/feds) should sanction anything with it (grounds, license plates, etc...). But if a individual at his private residence, or on his private property decides the fly it, wear it, whatever, I don't care. That's their call. I think it's tacky, rednecky, trashy, etc..., but whatevs...If redneck Johnny puts a bumper sticker on his car, so be it.


Just a misreading of my question friend. It wasn't directed at you primarily but to the thread about the notion that displaying the flag was honoring soldiers who died in the Civil War. I was curious what people thought of that. I didn't think it was your position just "other peoples" positions. Folks you know. I could tell you took it wrong with the 'I don't care what you think" reply and kind of lost interest at that point.


Cool deal, yeah, not looking to argue or anything, merely attempting to post observations of what I have seen / heard. Sorry to come off as saying "I don't care"...I meant more in a "hey, this isn't my fight" type of way, rather than a "I don't care what YOU think" type of way. Personally, I DO care what you think. I mean, you won the Nirvana tournament, and in my head, that means you must know what your doing / talking about.


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