Wed January 14, 2015 12:36 am
Wed January 14, 2015 12:40 am
dimejinky99 wrote:someone reckons theres a cock and balls on the face..
Thu January 15, 2015 5:33 am
Sun April 12, 2015 8:24 am
Tue April 14, 2015 11:36 pm
Sun May 31, 2015 5:34 am
Sun May 31, 2015 5:42 am
simple schoolboy wrote:If any of you have been so lucky as to avoid this piece, I present to you, the author of Doonsebury:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/the-abuse-of-satire/390312/
Did Charlie Hebdo not punch down with enough force?
Sun May 31, 2015 5:49 am
Mon June 01, 2015 3:47 pm
I haven't read any details about this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that everyone lost.simple schoolboy wrote:Who won in the Phoenix protest: Islam or the West?
Mon June 01, 2015 3:53 pm
Green Habit wrote:I haven't read any details about this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that everyone lost.simple schoolboy wrote:Who won in the Phoenix protest: Islam or the West?
Sun December 06, 2015 12:53 am
Sun December 06, 2015 12:07 pm
LoathedVermin72 wrote:simple schoolboy wrote:If any of you have been so lucky as to avoid this piece, I present to you, the author of Doonsebury:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/the-abuse-of-satire/390312/
Did Charlie Hebdo not punch down with enough force?
Christ, I just saw this. Fuck that guy. Ugh. These apologists just DO NOT FUCKING GET IT.
The French tradition of free expression is too full of contradictions to fully embrace. Even Charlie Hebdo once fired a writer for not retracting an anti-Semitic column. Apparently he crossed some red line that was in place for one minority but not another.
Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up, against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful. Great French satirists like Molière and Daumier always punched up, holding up the self-satisfied and hypocritical to ridicule. Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny—it’s just mean.
What free speech absolutists have failed to acknowledge is that because one has the right to offend a group does not mean that one must. Or that that group gives up the right to be outraged. They’re allowed to feel pain. Freedom should always be discussed within the context of responsibility. At some point free expression absolutism becomes childish and unserious. It becomes its own kind of fanaticism.
Sun December 06, 2015 1:29 pm
Sun December 06, 2015 1:59 pm
Green Habit wrote:I haven't read any details about this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that everyone lost.simple schoolboy wrote:Who won in the Phoenix protest: Islam or the West?
Sun December 06, 2015 4:06 pm
stip wrote:LoathedVermin72 wrote:simple schoolboy wrote:If any of you have been so lucky as to avoid this piece, I present to you, the author of Doonsebury:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/the-abuse-of-satire/390312/
Did Charlie Hebdo not punch down with enough force?
Christ, I just saw this. Fuck that guy. Ugh. These apologists just DO NOT FUCKING GET IT.
To the surprise of absolutely no one, I'm pretty sympathetic to this piece. For starters, free speech, like any right, is never absolute, and while we use that language in defense of the people, institutions, and ideas that we support, we're generally comfortable, in practice, with limiting it's application.
Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up, against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful. Great French satirists like Molière and Daumier always punched up, holding up the self-satisfied and hypocritical to ridicule. Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny—it’s just mean.
This punching downward point is important, and something that acontextual supporters of free speech see as an absolute value, and who hide behind the phrase political correctness to avoid any meaningful discussion of the idea that there are limitations, often miss. I am not saying that you can't write obnoxious things about weaker people, but he's right. Satire is a means for people without power to contest the strength of those who have it. From the top down it can be hard to distinguish from bullying. ... And so there is a tricky balancing act between using satire to attack particular power dynamics within parts of the religion (say the way women are treated) and kicking the religion itself, which does become a form of bullying.
But it doesn't make you a hero, it may make you irresponsible, and at times it just makes you an asshole.
What free speech absolutists have failed to acknowledge is that because one has the right to offend a group does not mean that one must. Or that that group gives up the right to be outraged. They’re allowed to feel pain. Freedom should always be discussed within the context of responsibility. At some point free expression absolutism becomes childish and unserious. It becomes its own kind of fanaticism.
Yeah, what a stupid column...
Sun December 06, 2015 4:48 pm
It was basically hate attacking hate.stip wrote:what was the phoenix protest?Green Habit wrote:I haven't read any details about this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that everyone lost.simple schoolboy wrote:Who won in the Phoenix protest: Islam or the West?
Sun December 06, 2015 5:02 pm
Green Habit wrote:It was basically hate attacking hate.stip wrote:what was the phoenix protest?Green Habit wrote:I haven't read any details about this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that everyone lost.simple schoolboy wrote:Who won in the Phoenix protest: Islam or the West?
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/4/8542313/tex ... s-shooting
Sun December 06, 2015 5:16 pm
LoathedVermin72 wrote:stip wrote:LoathedVermin72 wrote:simple schoolboy wrote:If any of you have been so lucky as to avoid this piece, I present to you, the author of Doonsebury:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/the-abuse-of-satire/390312/
Did Charlie Hebdo not punch down with enough force?
Christ, I just saw this. Fuck that guy. Ugh. These apologists just DO NOT FUCKING GET IT.
To the surprise of absolutely no one, I'm pretty sympathetic to this piece. For starters, free speech, like any right, is never absolute, and while we use that language in defense of the people, institutions, and ideas that we support, we're generally comfortable, in practice, with limiting it's application.
We are? How so? I guess libel, slander, and revealing people's confidential information are off-limits. What else are you talking about?
LoathedVermin72 wrote:Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up, against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful. Great French satirists like Molière and Daumier always punched up, holding up the self-satisfied and hypocritical to ridicule. Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny—it’s just mean.
This punching downward point is important, and something that acontextual supporters of free speech see as an absolute value, and who hide behind the phrase political correctness to avoid any meaningful discussion of the idea that there are limitations, often miss. I am not saying that you can't write obnoxious things about weaker people, but he's right. Satire is a means for people without power to contest the strength of those who have it. From the top down it can be hard to distinguish from bullying. ... And so there is a tricky balancing act between using satire to attack particular power dynamics within parts of the religion (say the way women are treated) and kicking the religion itself, which does become a form of bullying.
I really, really do not understand this persistent refusal to separate individual from ideology. It's a maddening conflation.
It is not "bullying" to ridicule Islam, because Islam is not a person. An ideology cannot be "bullied." Since when was Charlie Hebdo, or anyone criticizing/mocking Islam, writing "obnoxious things about weak people?"
This kind of response is clueless and insensitive at best and victim-blaming and despicable at worst.
LoathedVermin72 wrote:But it doesn't make you a hero, it may make you irresponsible, and at times it just makes you an asshole.
Criticizing a religion is "irresponsible?" Seriously?!
LoathedVermin72 wrote:What free speech absolutists have failed to acknowledge is that because one has the right to offend a group does not mean that one must. Or that that group gives up the right to be outraged. They’re allowed to feel pain. Freedom should always be discussed within the context of responsibility. At some point free expression absolutism becomes childish and unserious. It becomes its own kind of fanaticism.
Yeah, what a stupid column...
LoathedVermin72 wrote:What they don't have the right to do is fucking murder people because of it, which is all this is, and should be, about.
UGH!
Sun December 06, 2015 5:37 pm
Sun December 06, 2015 5:43 pm