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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 11:40 am 
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Self wrote:
Oh yeah, folks get in line to be cops because it's a safe occupation.

Well, it's not even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in the US.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-to ... ted-states

Beat out by roofers, garbage collectors, and crossing guards.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 11:48 am 
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Cops are the best?


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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 12:34 pm 
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B wrote:
Self wrote:
Oh yeah, folks get in line to be cops because it's a safe occupation.

Well, it's not even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in the US.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-to ... ted-states

Beat out by roofers, garbage collectors, and crossing guards.



This is right up there with COVID/9-11 comparisons.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 12:58 pm 
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B wrote:
Cops are the best?


B, first of all look at your jobs list. Cops are the only ones who die because people are intentionally trying to kill them.

In other news, wow, if you told me that police defunding would correlate with a spike in murders I never would have believed you! :arrow:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/police ... 1594472400

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 1:15 pm 
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I haven’t read the quoted study but 538 had this explanation last summer for data over that same period:

Quote:
Similarly, arrest rates have declined in major cities at a faster pace than arrest rates in suburban and rural areas. Fewer arrests means fewer police encounters that could escalate to deadly force — police are substantially more likely to use force when making an arrest than in other interactions with the public — so falling arrest numbers could have a marked effect on police killings. Comparing police shootings data to the arrests data each department reported in the FBI Uniform Crime Report shows that departments that reported larger reductions in arrests from 2013-2018 also reported larger reductions in police shootings. Specifically, cities that reduced police shootings also made 35 percent fewer arrests in 2018 than 2013, compared to only a 4 percent drop in arrests in cities where police shootings increased or remained constant. These declining arrest rates have been attributed, in part, to reforms reducing enforcement of low-level offenses such as marijuana possession, disorderly conduct, loitering and prostitution.


Sounds like the “well, actually” answer might be legalized pot



Edit: since I am piece of shit human, I’ll add two things. The title should be “300 fewer homicides than would have been predicted”. It’s impossible to show the effect of “2017 police shooting A would have occurred if not for the 2015 protests”. Secondly, 300 fewer police-involved killings over six years is about one per week. One per week out of over 100,000,000 people in these places. How effective is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 3:05 pm 
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How has the murder rate fared over that period?

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 3:09 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
How has the murder rate fared over that period?

Murder is way up

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Sun April 18, 2021 11:45 pm 
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Enlightened Activism:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vandals-targe ... d=77149729

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Mon April 19, 2021 6:00 pm 
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https://www.city-journal.org/adam-toledo-shooting

Quote:
A Recipe for More Tragedy
The media’s rush to judgment on the Adam Toledo shooting will come with a high cost.
Rafael A. Mangual
April 16, 2021 Public safety

Last night, as I scrolled through my newsfeed on Facebook, I saw multiple posts referring to the shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo by Chicago police officer Eric Stillman, video (warning: graphic) of which had just been released by the city’s Civilian Office of Police Accountability.

All the posts linked to news stories with headlines emphasizing one detail: at the moment Toledo was struck by the officer’s gunfire, his hands were raised and appeared to be empty. A sampling of the news headlines:

Slate: “Video Shows Chicago Police Shoot 13-Year-Old Adam Toledo With His Hands Up”

BuzzFeed News: “Video Shows 13-Year-Old Adam Toledo Had His Hands Up When A Police Officer Fatally Shot Him”

NBC 5 Chicago: “Attorney: Adam Toledo Did Not Have Gun In His Hand When He Was Shot By Chicago Police”

Mic: “13-year-old Adam Toledo put his hands up. Chicago police killed him anyway”

USA Today: “‘We failed Adam’: Body camera videos show 13-year-old Adam Toledo put hands up before fatal police shooting in Chicago” (the quote belongs to Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot)

The Associated Press: “Video: Chicago boy wasn’t holding gun when shot by officer”

The implication from these headlines is clear: the boy was unarmed and raising his hands in surrender when he was shot—ergo, this was a bad shooting.

Those were just the news pieces. The commentary was more explicit. In The Hill, a piece entitled “Lawmakers demand justice for Adam Toledo: ‘His hands were up. He was unarmed’” quotes, among many other Democratic lawmakers, California congresswoman Karen Bass, who tweeted, “Adam Toledo was 13 years old. Those responsible for taking the rest of his life away from him must be held accountable.” A local community organizer told an audience on Democracy Now! that “There is no other way to describe what we saw in the video, as a cold-blooded murder.” During a press conference, the attorney representing Toledo’s family said, “If you’re shooting an unarmed child with his hands in the air, it is an assassination.” The Los Angeles Times quoted “neighbors” in Little Village, where the shooting took place, who referred to the shooting as “an execution.”

New York City mayoral hopeful Andrew Yang distilled the relevant facts to just three: “He was 13. He was unarmed. His hands were up.” Law professor Paul Butler (with whom I recently debated police reform) asked, on MSNBC, “Where is the bottom?”—suggesting that this shooting was clearly wrong. Butler went on to note that the officer fired his weapon “within 20 seconds of leaving his car.” Similarly, MSNBC’s Joy Reid said of the police in this case, “They didn’t wait ten seconds before opening up on him like it was a drive-by.” What Butler and Reid don’t seem to understand is that it takes a lot less than ten seconds for an armed suspect to shoot a police officer.

Such inflammatory comments have become par for the course for modern media. A close analysis of the available video evidence also shows just how detached from reality these comments are.

The video is extremely difficult to watch. It is awful to watch the fear set in on Toledo’s face as he seemed to realize he would die. Children are not supposed to die—especially not in a dark alley at 2:30 in the morning, with what officers on-scene described as a sucking chest wound.

The video clearly depicts a tragedy—but it is far from clear that it depicts a crime, let alone one motivated by racial animus. Consider four freeze-frames from the body-camera footage of Officer Stillman.

In the first (pictured below), Toledo is seen holding what appears to be a gun in his right hand. Notice the timestamp, which shows the second-marker at 39 seconds. At this point, Toledo, who had led Officer Stillman on a foot-chase through the dark alley, had come to a stop and was beginning to orient his body toward Stillman.


Image


The second freeze-frame (pictured below) shows Toledo as he turned to his left toward the officer, at which point both the gun and his right hand were positioned behind Toledo’s body, hidden from the officer’s view. This seems to be the point at which Toledo began to toss the gun behind the wooden fence, which the officer could not have seen through. Again, notice the second-marker on the time stamp, which is still at 39 seconds. The time that has elapsed between these two freeze frames is in the range of a few-hundred milliseconds. Notice also how blurry both the arm and hand of officer Stillman are, reminding us that, while the media has fixated on a single freeze-frame we can all pore over while sitting still in well-lit rooms, the picture before Stillman was dark and in motion.

Image


The next frame (see below) shows that Toledo is still turning toward the officer, while his right hand (and the gun) are still hidden from view. Notice how blurry Toledo is in the frame, indicating that he and/or Stillman are still in motion. And take note of the second-marker, which is still at just 39 seconds.

Image


The final freeze-frame captures the moment Officer Stillman fired his weapon—as Toledo was completing his turn to face Stillman, while raising his now-empty hands. This is the point at which journalists and commentators have decided to both start and end their analysis of this case.

Image

Notice, again, the time stamp, which shows the second-marker at 40 seconds.

Sometimes, police officers simply don’t have the luxury of even ten seconds to assess a situation. Consider another disturbing video (released just five days ago) which depicts the murder of New Mexico State Police Officer Darian Jarrott. While this incident got far less attention than other recent officer-involved shootings, it shows just how quickly a suspect’s hands can go from empty to armed.

Less than one second elapsed between Toledo beginning his turn toward the officer with a gun in his right hand, and the officer firing a single shot from his service weapon. And these were not ideal conditions in which to make a split-second decision: it was dark, and Stillman’s heart rate and adrenaline levels were likely elevated due to the foot chase. Furthermore, Stillman and his partner had encountered Toledo and another man, who was taken into custody at the scene, because they were responding to a ShotSpotter alert. ShotSpotter is a system of sensors that detects gunfire in real-time and provides that information to nearby police, so that they can respond to shootings more quickly. When Stillman and his partner arrived, there were only two people in sight. One of them took off with a gun in his hand.

Was it really so unreasonable for Stillman to have genuinely perceived a risk to his own life when he decided to pull the trigger? I don’t think so, but I’m certain of one thing: that’s not a question you can answer based on a single, out-of-context freeze-frame. Those who attempt to do so show their extreme ignorance of the realities of dynamic situations like these. Such hasty conclusions also reinforce cops’ perception, which I suspect is becoming even more widespread, that they should not expect fair treatment if they have the misfortune of being involved in a use-of-force incident. As that perception deepens among cops, we run the risk of more and more officers prioritizing risk-minimization over being proactive. As the past year of escalating crime has shown us, that’s a recipe for more tragedy.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Mon April 19, 2021 6:18 pm 
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That last part is so weirdly vague and sort of undermines the piece.


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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Mon April 19, 2021 7:09 pm 
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spike wrote:
That last part is so weirdly vague and sort of undermines the piece.



Agreed. I do wish there was a couple of analytic pieces about what the rules are for letting an armed suspect surrender.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Mon April 19, 2021 10:08 pm 
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:facepalm:

https://www.startribune.com/jury-now-ha ... 600047627/


Quote:
"I'll give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result on this whole trial being overturned," Judge Peter Cahill said, denying the motion although he acknowledged Nelson's concerns were legitimate.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 4:51 am 
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Did my tax dollars pay for that old hag’s flight to Minneapolis?

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 10:05 am 
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If she'dve just kept her mouth shut the protesters would have all gone home immediately following an acquittal.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 10:18 am 
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Funny she says the quite part out loud

ExPresident and other republican stooges say the quite part out loud and its. Ohhh it’s just talk

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 12:07 pm 
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B wrote:
If she'dve just kept her mouth shut the protesters would have all gone home immediately following an acquittal.



She didn't say that exactly, though it's understandable given that most media outlets are selectively quoting her for some reason.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maxin ... ntational/

Quote:
Question: “As a Black man, despite all of the efforts, I feel like nothing changes. And George Floyd is waking so many people up, yet nothing has happened despite the rhetoric. What needs to happen that’s different this year than all the years before?”

Waters: “We’re looking for a guilty verdict. We’re looking for a guilty verdict and we’re looking to see if all of the talk that took place and has been taking place after they saw what happened to George Floyd, if nothing does not happen, then we know that we’ve got to not only stay in the street, but we’ve got to fight for justice. But I am very hopeful, and I hope that we’re going to get a verdict that will say guilty, guilty, guilty. And if we don’t, we cannot go away.”

Question: “And not just manslaughter, right?”

Waters: “Oh no, not manslaughter. No, no, no, this is guilty for murder. I don’t know whether it’s in the first degree but as far as I’m concerned it’s first-degree murder.”

Question: “Ms. Congresswoman. What happens if we do not get what you just told? What should the people do? What should protesters on the street do?”

Waters: “I didn’t hear you.”

Question: “What happens…”

Question: “What should protesters do?”

Waters: “Well, we’ve got to stay on the street. And we’ve got to get more active. We’ve got to get more confrontational. We’ve got to make sure that they know that we mean business.”



It's entirely reasonable to believe that a juror hearing this would believe that not supporting a guilty verdict in the murder charges would mean violence and likely more George Floyds. I have no idea how anyone could prove a juror heard or didnt hear it, and given the 'home visits' that activists seem to think is somehow acceptable now none of them will ever admit hearing it (that would also result in a contempt charge), but with the speed of social media it's not hard to believe some of them did.


But outside the context of the trial we should ask ourselves what this type of behavior by our leaders means should Chauvin be convicted on manslaughter but not murder and once again our cities burn, especially given the lessons of 06.Jan.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 1:00 pm 
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Not to defend Waters, although I DO think that Americans are justified in losing their shit if there was an acquittal, but does anyone seriously believe that a juror expected a not guilty vote to result in peace in the streets until Maxine Waters told them otherwise?

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 1:07 pm 
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B wrote:
Not to defend Waters, although I DO think that Americans are justified in losing their shit if there was an acquittal, but does anyone seriously believe that a juror expected a not guilty vote to result in peace in the streets until Maxine Waters told them otherwise?



So if he is convicted of manslaughter, but acquitted on murder, you would endorse violence as a response? think through what that means.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 1:14 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
B wrote:
Not to defend Waters, although I DO think that Americans are justified in losing their shit if there was an acquittal, but does anyone seriously believe that a juror expected a not guilty vote to result in peace in the streets until Maxine Waters told them otherwise?



So if he is convicted of manslaughter, but acquitted on murder, you would endorse violence as a response? think through what that means.


Personally, I think justice would be served if she was convicted of manslaughter.

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 Post subject: Re: Cops Are The Worst
PostPosted: Tue April 20, 2021 1:25 pm 
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B wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
B wrote:
Not to defend Waters, although I DO think that Americans are justified in losing their shit if there was an acquittal, but does anyone seriously believe that a juror expected a not guilty vote to result in peace in the streets until Maxine Waters told them otherwise?



So if he is convicted of manslaughter, but acquitted on murder, you would endorse violence as a response? think through what that means.


Personally, I think justice would be served if she was convicted of manslaughter.

Same

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