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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Fuck You Jobu wrote:
9. Women lie about rape to get sympathy


True story: this happened to me

My first fiance apparently worried that our friends would turn their backs on her, on account of she was scheming to kick me out of the apartment and move her work buddy in all on the same weekend. Our social circle was pretty intertwined at that point (we were still in college), so she started telling everyone that I was this whole other person behind closed doors and had done all sorts of awful things. I had no idea any of it was happening. All I knew was that my fiance dumped me and replaced me in a day, and almost everyone took her side.

Apparently she made some kind of comment at a party that got her busted some time later, and she ended up admitting to the whole thing in a tearful "I just didn't want you guys to hate me do I did this awful thing" stupor. It was met with much sympathy. There was some reconnection after that, but life had moved on, so.

I mean, not to validate this garbage article. But that happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:44 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Fuck You Jobu wrote:
9. Women lie about rape to get sympathy


True story: this happened to me

My first fiance apparently worried that our friends would turn their backs on her, on account of she was scheming to kick me out of the apartment and move her work buddy in all on the same weekend. Our social circle was pretty intertwined at that point (we were still in college), so she started telling everyone that I was this whole other person behind closed doors and had done all sorts of awful things. I had no idea any of it was happening. All I knew was that my fiance dumped me and replaced me in a day, and almost everyone took her side.

Apparently she made some kind of comment at a party that got her busted some time later, and she ended up admitting to the whole thing in a tearful "I just didn't want you guys to hate me do I did this awful thing" stupor. It was met with much sympathy. There was some reconnection after that, but life had moved on, so.

I mean, not to validate this garbage article. But that happened.


Validation noted. I say that because there are no consequences for this.


Last edited by Fuck You Jobu on Thu December 11, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:50 pm 
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women lie. men lie. what a revelation!

what's the point of that article, fuck you jobu?

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:51 pm 
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malice wrote:
what's the point of that article, fuck you jobu?

I'll take this one.

The point of the article is to inflate the sense that sense of doubt that should be given when a woman claims rape. Even though FBI statistics have it as 2-5% of rape claims are lies, if you publish articles like this people will naturally begin to think of it as more of a coinflip.


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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 8:52 pm 
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It's like when you publish articles doubting climate change and say that there are in fact scientists out there that doubt it, but fail to say that something like 98% of them don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 9:53 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Fuck You Jobu wrote:
9. Women lie about rape to get sympathy


True story: this happened to me

My first fiance apparently worried that our friends would turn their backs on her, on account of she was scheming to kick me out of the apartment and move her work buddy in all on the same weekend. Our social circle was pretty intertwined at that point (we were still in college), so she started telling everyone that I was this whole other person behind closed doors and had done all sorts of awful things. I had no idea any of it was happening. All I knew was that my fiance dumped me and replaced me in a day, and almost everyone took her side.

Apparently she made some kind of comment at a party that got her busted some time later, and she ended up admitting to the whole thing in a tearful "I just didn't want you guys to hate me do I did this awful thing" stupor. It was met with much sympathy. There was some reconnection after that, but life had moved on, so.

I mean, not to validate this garbage article. But that happened.

i like the implication here that dumping you would be such an egregious offense that she resorted to subterfuge in order for society to consider it to be a reasonable decision

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 9:55 pm 
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Fun fact: we're still good friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:02 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Fun fact: we're still good friends.

i'm not sure what you mean, because you seemed to indicate at the end of that story that there was a lukewarm reconciliation, at best... unless it's sarcasm, in which case, i don't see the humor. can you set me straight, mcp?

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:10 pm 
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Not lukewarm, just...life had moved on. I moved to Omaha, she went to Phoenix, etc. She did introduce me to my wife, though, before we all left.

Oh, and the guy she moved in turned out to be a cross-dresser. He didn't last long.

When you put it all together like this it starts to sound made up.

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:16 pm 
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yeah

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:22 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:27 pm 
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oh-my-god

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Thu December 11, 2014 10:28 pm 
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up close like that you really notice the lazy eye

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Fri December 12, 2014 3:13 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
malice wrote:
what's the point of that article, fuck you jobu?

I'll take this one.

The point of the article is to inflate the sense that sense of doubt that should be given when a woman claims rape. Even though FBI statistics have it as 2-5% of rape claims are lies, if you publish articles like this people will naturally begin to think of it as more of a coinflip.



Devils Advocate: Aren't we trained (or at least, shouldn't we be) as a society to cast doubt upon a story in which we dont have any evidence or proof of a crime occurring? Our entire justice system (again, supposed to be) predicated on the notion that one is innocent until we KNOW we are guilty? While there is no question that article is complete and utter trash, I think there is some validity (not just in sexual assault, but also the recent cops killing kids, and even something like Casey Anthony) to the fact that ALL claims that a crime has been committed should be treated with some doubt.

And unfortunately in cases of sexual assault the public branding that occurs, regardless of criminal charges, has a great impact on the accused. Kobe Bryant still is called a rapist by some. Ben Roethlisburger, Evan Reed. etc. Hell, I still view them as rapists... but were they ever convicted? Were they accused just because they had money, or did they get away with it for the same reason? But the mere accusation of rape is enough to brand them in my own mind- even though I never saw any actual evidence that it occurred.

I just dont know if there's an answer to it... If any investigation or claim leads part of the public opinion to automatically assign guilt, there is always going to be abuse of that. But you can't let the fear of that happening to discourage people from coming forward to report any instance of sexual assault. It's a shame we don't have more trust in our justice system to be able to sort it out for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Fri December 12, 2014 3:25 pm 
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@SkitchP wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
malice wrote:
what's the point of that article, fuck you jobu?

I'll take this one.

The point of the article is to inflate the sense that sense of doubt that should be given when a woman claims rape. Even though FBI statistics have it as 2-5% of rape claims are lies, if you publish articles like this people will naturally begin to think of it as more of a coinflip.



Devils Advocate: Aren't we trained (or at least, shouldn't we be) as a society to cast doubt upon a story in which we dont have any evidence or proof of a crime occurring? Our entire justice system (again, supposed to be) predicated on the notion that one is innocent until we KNOW we are guilty? While there is no question that article is complete and utter trash, I think there is some validity (not just in sexual assault, but also the recent cops killing kids, and even something like Casey Anthony) to the fact that ALL claims that a crime has been committed should be treated with some doubt.

Sure, but we've turned into this society where everything we debate has to have this perceived balance to it, even when reality says one side should be weighted more than the other. It's like the old adage that says if one political party came out saying that the earth is flat, the headline the next day would read "politicians disagree on shape of earth" even though one side of the argument is clearly more valid than the other. We have this way about us that if a position is stated loudly enough, it becomes valid, even when it shouldn't be.

The truth is, a very small minority of sexual assault claims are made up. And when you publish an article like that, you skew the representation of how much of a minority those cases are. And because of this, and not just this article but the cumulative effect of the attitude in general, there are a lot of people out there who when hearing about a sexual accusation, will default to "well there's a pretty good chance she's making this up" and that's dangerous.

I'm not really advocating for people to stop writing skeptical pieces when it comes to anything, but you have to be careful to not misrepresent reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Fri December 12, 2014 3:32 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
malice wrote:
what's the point of that article, fuck you jobu?

I'll take this one.

The point of the article is to inflate the sense that sense of doubt that should be given when a woman claims rape. Even though FBI statistics have it as 2-5% of rape claims are lies, if you publish articles like this people will naturally begin to think of it as more of a coinflip.



Devils Advocate: Aren't we trained (or at least, shouldn't we be) as a society to cast doubt upon a story in which we dont have any evidence or proof of a crime occurring? Our entire justice system (again, supposed to be) predicated on the notion that one is innocent until we KNOW we are guilty? While there is no question that article is complete and utter trash, I think there is some validity (not just in sexual assault, but also the recent cops killing kids, and even something like Casey Anthony) to the fact that ALL claims that a crime has been committed should be treated with some doubt.

Sure, but we've turned into this society where everything we debate has to have this perceived balance to it, even when reality says one side should be weighted more than the other. It's like the old adage that says if one political party came out saying that the earth is flat, the headline the next day would read "politicians disagree on shape of earth" even though one side of the argument is clearly more valid than the other. We have this way about us that if a position is stated loudly enough, it becomes valid, even when it shouldn't be.

The truth is, a very small minority of sexual assault claims are made up. And when you publish an article like that, you skew the representation of how much of a minority those cases are. And because of this, and not just this article but the cumulative effect of the attitude in general, there are a lot of people out there who when hearing about a sexual accusation, will default to "well there's a pretty good chance she's making this up" and that's dangerous.

I'm not really advocating for people to stop writing skeptical pieces when it comes to anything, but you have to be careful to not misrepresent reality.



I agree about the perceived balance thing. Sometimes people are just wrong and should shut up. But the argue about the shape of the earth adage doesn't seem appropriate here, because the severity of the crime obviously weights it more toward the need to believe the accuser... but the need to presume innocence without evidence (again, entirely as it relates to public opinion- not criminal) should be given more weight than maybe it is. Even if only 2% of claims are false, isn't that enough to continue to have the debate given the severity of the punishments, both criminal and perception?

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Fri December 12, 2014 11:38 pm 
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i don't disagree with anyone here, but there's not much 'severity' to the punishment, imo. or maybe not enough for my sense of balance. i dunno.

i wouldn't want to punish someone who hasn't committed a crime- any kind of crime. but we do it all the time as a society. the difference i see with rape is that women suffer a social trauma in accusing a man of rape. that's rarely the case with other types of crimes. (see: the near score of women who are all coming forward in the Bill Cosby accusations. most said they didn't feel they'd be believed or felt powerless to take action against him, and i don't think that reaction is restricted to famous people either)

that's something of a large deterrent in my mind to falsely accusing someone to the police of rape. there's a very large and immediate price that goes along with that kind of accusation...

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 Post subject: Re: Feminism
PostPosted: Sat December 13, 2014 12:02 am 
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malice wrote:
that's something of a large deterrent in my mind to falsely accusing someone to the police of rape. there's a very large and immediate price that goes along with that kind of accusation...



I would argue that the type of person willing to make a false rape claim is going to be the type of person who isn't going to be bothered by a social stigma attaching to them.

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