General Education Topik

[Bi_3]

Yeah, no.

They were underpaid before, they are underpaid now.

People don't want to do the job for the low salaries and now understand that they'll be asked to do more (for less) should another pandemic arrive.

The unions worked to keep the schools closed against the wishes of the rank and file?

The closures also forced a lot of parents to actually look at what their kids were studying instead of just asking how the day went during dinner and the consensus seems to be "what the..."

[spike]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

[simple schoolboy]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

[Bammer]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

And not for the kids

[simple schoolboy]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

And not for the kids

I am assured the Teachers hated remote learning and really would have preferred to be in person for the duration. I am assured of this.

[spike]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

sure, but what if the pay was higher

[simple schoolboy]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

sure, but what if the pay was higher

What if a K-12 education qualified you to teach K-5 or K-8 without additional low value add certification? What if a relatively large number of High School graduates taught for a year or two before moving onto something else?

What if in the world of remote learning Chat-GPT is a better tutor than human remote teachers waiting out the months til' summer or the years til retirement?

[elliseamos]

No, let's let 50 different governors decide what gets taught, how we measure how teachers are doing teaching it, and what the "education marketplace" should look like.

[Bi_3]

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

No kidding, I said that on the previous page with the rig worker example. But there appears to be five interrelated issues:

1.) Getting more people to become teachers
2.) Keeping existing teachers in the job
3.) Keeping existing teachers in the school/district
4.) Student achievement
5.) Voter support for public school teachers and public education

More money (and something like salary increases tied to inflation) seems like a no-brainer. It helps 1-3, but it might actually make 4 and 5 more significant if the perception is the investment doesn't off... then you are in a worse state.

[simple schoolboy]

No, let's let 50 different governors decide what gets taught, how we measure how teachers are doing teaching it, and what the "education marketplace" should look like.

Don't we all agree that the most recent federal involvement in education, NCLB was a flop? I don't think Federalizing everything is an obvious solution.

Blowing up all the Education departments and starting over might be necessary. If they can't even acknowledge how wrong they've been about phonics, what have they gotten right?

[spike]

Some places require masters degrees

To teach k-12?

Sorry for the lazy, too short response... not to "teach" but some positions listed as "teacher" because they're part of the teacher salary pay-scale & contract structure are master-level required job listings. Could skew the data on Bi's chart.

I'm actually struggling to get a solid understanding of the situation. Like, I believe McP that it's a long standing issue that is getting worse and salary is the fastest way to start to address it... but I wonder if the time for 'just pay them more' has passed. The pandemic permanently altered the whole conversation and I don't think the old explanations are enough now.

don't play dumb, people will put up with all sorts of shit for more money.

There's money on the front end and there's money on the backend. Outside of public sector jobs, almost no one gets defined benefit retirement plans. You become a teacher for 3 months off a year and a pension at the end, not for the pay.

sure, but what if the pay was higher

What if a K-12 education qualified you to teach K-5 or K-8 without additional low value add certification? What if a relatively large number of High School graduates taught for a year or two before moving onto something else?

What if in the world of remote learning Chat-GPT is a better tutor than human remote teachers waiting out the months til' summer or the years til retirement?

My god you’re jaded.

[elliseamos]

No, let's let 50 different governors decide what gets taught, how we measure how teachers are doing teaching it, and what the "education marketplace" should look like.

Don't we all agree that the most recent federal involvement in education, NCLB was a flop? I don't think Federalizing everything is an obvious solution.

Blowing up all the Education departments and starting over might be necessary. If they can't even acknowledge how wrong they've been about phonics, what have they gotten right?

"Race to the Top" came on the heels of NCLB and still left the door open for charter schools to skirt the rules that everyone else played by (with the same public funds, mind you). That's what I meant ny the "education marketplace". Some governors have no problem hurting their state's existing public schools to steer money to for-profit schools.

[McParadigm]

ORLANDO, Fla. – Florida’s public schools continue to deal with a shortage of teachers.
Vacancies have doubled in the Sunshine State over the last two years, and it’s estimated more than 100,000 students do not have a full-time teacher.

Gov. Ron DeSantis pushed lawmakers to boost starting teacher salaries to $47,500, which ranks 16th in the country. Overall though, Florida’s average teacher pay is ranked 49th.
“Florida, I think, is one of the worst in the nation,” Spar said. “There are some studies out there that show we have the second most number of vacancies in the nation right now.”

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local ... he-nation/

[tragabigzanda]

Honest question for those who were really digging in the last couple weeks: Do you see any world where public education in the US is truly great? And I mean along multiple horizons: quality of education, teacher salaries, dynamic support resources for students across skill/ability levels?

I’m generally a very optimistic person and have a hard-on for most things that might qualify as a public good, but I’m not holding my breath on this one.

[elliseamos]

Honest question for those who were really digging in the last couple weeks: Do you see any world where public education in the US is truly great? And I mean along multiple horizons: quality of education, teacher salaries, dynamic support resources for students across skill/ability levels?

I’m generally a very optimistic person and have a hard-on for most things that might qualify as a public good, but I’m not holding my breath on this one.

I work in a tremendous school system. While rare, they do exist.

[tragabigzanda]

Aren’t you in another country ?

Also I do know there are some phenomenal schools in NYC

[elliseamos]

Aren’t you in another country ?

Also I do know there are some phenomenal schools in NYC

Does my location not help answer that for you?

I'm in Maine, trag. I work at a public high school.

One of the best funded in the state, mind you.

[tragabigzanda]

I’m on mobile so not seeing your location. Interesting that the school is great. I assume teachers are well-paid?

[elliseamos]

I’m on mobile so not seeing your location. Interesting that the school is great. I assume teachers are well-paid?

"One of the best funded in the state" means our contract is what other communities use as comps.

[Bi_3]

Hmmm… what is this “Flexible Scheduling” thing? I thought it just a small group of kids on campus just a tiny district of 3 schools in Ohio.