In your opinion, where does the average citizen have more power: in politics or in the marketplace?

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It got you to bring back an old avatar.

I don't know, ideally I'd much rather have labor relations taken care of internally via collective bargaining than via government force.

i think the problem is that while we have plenty of superficial choice in the marketplace, we currently lack the capacity to make meaningful choices about the larger things in our lives that really matter--the kind of world we want to live in. I think in general it is easier to make those sorts of choices politically, but that depends on how power is structured in that society. We currently aren't doing well anywhere, but the way forward is probably political.

basically in order for democratic accountability to exist in the marketplace you need to ensure that the rules governing that marketplace are designed to make that accountability possible, and that basically just happens through politics.

You already know where I'm going to go.
Unfortunately, the political regulations are often made by those who have accepted large campaign contributions from the very industries they are assigned to regulate.

so what are your thoughts regarding ALEC?

absolutely. The fact that the best mechanism available is easily manipulated by people with power doesn't change anything though. It just means that change and justice and democracy are HARD. that's the point of that whole apocryphal 'a republic madam, if you can keep it' ben Franklin quote.

If what you were describing was ALWAYS the case you'd be right, but it is possible to carve progress out of this process. It's just very difficult, and essentially we've all come of age during a 30 year stretch where we were/are doing the exact opposite.

keep in mind I also think the only thing that really opposes the power of money is mass, and mass organization has to come from outside the political system to affect some change within it. I said this in that other thread I started but political machinery is largely neutral. It responds to whoever does the better job applying pressure to it. Usually that is elites, but elites can be resisted.

The local newspaper ran some poll numbers from a survery of 520 registered Georgia voters.

53% perfer the concept of creationism over evolution. Democrats are slightly more likely to believe in evolution here.
73% favor background checks on firearm purchases. 59% of Republicans favor them along with 55% who consider themselves to be "very conservative".
60% believe gay marriage should remain illegal in Georgia. 83% of Republican want it to stay that way and 47% of Democrats believe it should become legal here. But 56% of all voters ages 18-29 are okay with gay marriage.
16% disapprove of interracial marriage, 24% of Republicans do.
54% of Georgians have a favorable view of Paula Deen.
28% of Georgians have an unfavorable opinion of General William T. Sherman. Sadly over half (56%) do not know who he was.
Chris Christie is the most popular of the potential '16 candidates followed by Jeb Bush, who was in a tie for second place with Hillary Clinton, easily the most popular Democrat.

but i thought that the representatives that voted it down were representing their constituents?

Not sure where this goes, but we can see more evidence that immigration/amnesty is suicide for conservative ideology... yet people like Paul Ryan, supposed champion of smaller and more financially conservative government, support it.

Rather than starting a whole separate thread, what are folks thoughts on Gasland 2?

Basically the same message. Although I feel like it makes the case even more clear.

Maybe the poster formerly known as LittleWing could make an appearance and tell me how everything is great b/c he thinks so... maybe.

It's probably a combination of the following:

--when ethnic groups that have not fully integrated into 'white' America first form an attachment to a political party it tends to last generations. So some of this is just a realization that demographically the republicans do not want to stampede hispanics into the republican party. Immigration reform will eventually happen. Best to not be seen as the reason it took so long. that impression can linger.

--there is a hope that they can win those voters over on conservative social issues and blunt the importance of the economic disagreements. This could change with shifting demographics (about as many 18-27 year olds now report having as positive a view towards socialism as they do towards capitalism, although they're also skeptical that government can do anything useful) but they may also be banking on the fact that the democratic party is not likely to truly push for a more expansive welfare state out of a fear of angering wall-street. Some dems will, maybe even a majority, but enough dems will balk that republicans can prevent this from happening. if neither party is pushing for an aggressively expansionist agenda (regardless of what voters want) this is less of a big deal

--conservative ideologues (and ryan is one, regardless of how he is marketed) genuinely believe that Americans hate gov't, and may just rationalize away these polls.

2106 is starting already...


Broadcast TV's New Shows for 2014-15 Season:

Madam Secretary (CBS)

Stars: Tea Leoni, Tim Daly, Bebe Neuwirth, Geoffrey Arend, Patina Miller, Erich Bergen, Katherine Herzer
Team: Barbara Hall, Morgan Freeman, Lori McCreary, Tracy Mercer, David Semel

Centers on the personal and professional life of a maverick female Secretary of State as she drives international diplomacy, wrangles office politics and balances a complex family life.

That show looks terrible.

It really does.