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You have to go pretty crazy to make Michael Tracey seem to make a point on this topic. He and Greenwald seem to be of the opinion that Russia did nothing wrong and Ukraine is obliged to surrender because NATO exists or something.
Why are people like Chomsky claiming the US could end this tomorrow?
If the US and others are taking the position that sanctions won't end if there's a peace deal that's one thing, but I don't have any reason to believe that's the case.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
The problem is Russia defines Luhansk and Donetsk not as the territory they occupied before 2/24, but the entire oblasts, so they were asking Ukraine to cede additional territory. You have to ignore this rather significant aspect to pretend that Ukraine's refusal to agree to implement Minsk 2 to Russia's understanding was unreasonable.
Russia's war aims are rather abstract, so it's not clear that we could even pressure Ukraine to give Russia what it wants anyhow. Promise to stop resenting Russia and do it's bidding unquestioningly?
After facing Russian personnel (Korea) and equipment (Vietnam) it's kind of perverse to see the handwringing about providing weapons that are killing Russian soldiers.
The only critique that lands is that we should probably be more discreet about our involvement.
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am Posts: 35434
Putin seems to have well and truly spooked French President Macron. Who has changed his language about this whole thing over the last days and most recent call with Putin.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
The problem is Russia defines Luhansk and Donetsk not as the territory they occupied before 2/24, but the entire oblasts, so they were asking Ukraine to cede additional territory. You have to ignore this rather significant aspect to pretend that Ukraine's refusal to agree to implement Minsk 2 to Russia's understanding was unreasonable.
Russia's war aims are rather abstract, so it's not clear that we could even pressure Ukraine to give Russia what it wants anyhow. Promise to stop resenting Russia and do it's bidding unquestioningly?
After facing Russian personnel (Korea) and equipment (Vietnam) it's kind of perverse to see the handwringing about providing weapons that are killing Russian soldiers.
The only critique that lands is that we should probably be more discreet about our involvement.
Kherson is not in the Donbas at all, and it appears a clear goal of Russia to keep it, and even go further west, all the way to Transnistria.
Last edited by Anders on Wed May 11, 2022 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
The problem is Russia defines Luhansk and Donetsk not as the territory they occupied before 2/24, but the entire oblasts, so they were asking Ukraine to cede additional territory. You have to ignore this rather significant aspect to pretend that Ukraine's refusal to agree to implement Minsk 2 to Russia's understanding was unreasonable.
Russia's war aims are rather abstract, so it's not clear that we could even pressure Ukraine to give Russia what it wants anyhow. Promise to stop resenting Russia and do it's bidding unquestioningly?
After facing Russian personnel (Korea) and equipment (Vietnam) it's kind of perverse to see the handwringing about providing weapons that are killing Russian soldiers.
The only critique that lands is that we should probably be more discreet about our involvement.
Kherson is not in the Donbas at all, and it appears a clear goal ofvRussia to keep it, and even go further west, all the way to Transnistria.
Transnistria is an insane objective. I know US announced Intel supporting that claim, but if accurate the Russian decision making apparatus is more broken than we thought.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
The problem is Russia defines Luhansk and Donetsk not as the territory they occupied before 2/24, but the entire oblasts, so they were asking Ukraine to cede additional territory. You have to ignore this rather significant aspect to pretend that Ukraine's refusal to agree to implement Minsk 2 to Russia's understanding was unreasonable.
Russia's war aims are rather abstract, so it's not clear that we could even pressure Ukraine to give Russia what it wants anyhow. Promise to stop resenting Russia and do it's bidding unquestioningly?
After facing Russian personnel (Korea) and equipment (Vietnam) it's kind of perverse to see the handwringing about providing weapons that are killing Russian soldiers.
The only critique that lands is that we should probably be more discreet about our involvement.
Kherson is not in the Donbas at all, and it appears a clear goal of Russia to keep it, and even go further west, all the way to Transnistria.
Transnistria is an insane objective. I know US announced Intel supporting that claim, but if accurate the Russian decision making apparatus is more broken than we thought.
They already occupy Transnistria, so taking Odessa will be the difficult goal. They already hold the region from Russia to Kherson, if they capture Odessa, I don’t see how they can be stopped from achieving this goal.
He thinks the only way to end the war is through negotiation. He is basically saying to give up Crimea, let’s have elections in Donbas if all agree to it, and then we can end the war. And he thinks that US policy is stopping that from happening.
He is a well educated man, but he is underestimating the greed and insanity in Moscow, and overplaying the role of the US. Not surprising.
The problem is Russia defines Luhansk and Donetsk not as the territory they occupied before 2/24, but the entire oblasts, so they were asking Ukraine to cede additional territory. You have to ignore this rather significant aspect to pretend that Ukraine's refusal to agree to implement Minsk 2 to Russia's understanding was unreasonable.
Russia's war aims are rather abstract, so it's not clear that we could even pressure Ukraine to give Russia what it wants anyhow. Promise to stop resenting Russia and do it's bidding unquestioningly?
After facing Russian personnel (Korea) and equipment (Vietnam) it's kind of perverse to see the handwringing about providing weapons that are killing Russian soldiers.
The only critique that lands is that we should probably be more discreet about our involvement.
Kherson is not in the Donbas at all, and it appears a clear goal of Russia to keep it, and even go further west, all the way to Transnistria.
Transnistria is an insane objective. I know US announced Intel supporting that claim, but if accurate the Russian decision making apparatus is more broken than we thought.
They already occupy Transnistria, so taking Odessa will be the difficult goal. They already hold the region from Russia to Kherson, if they capture Odessa, I don’t see how they can be stopped from achieving this goal.
Sorry, connecting to Transnistria is the insane part.
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